Attracting New Players

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 1 Sep 2012 2:32 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Indeed Brint, the same argument can be applied to classical music. (Why did you put it in quotation marks?,) and it is a problem. The kids can't identify with it and don't want to listen to it or learn how to play it. Remember, the subject is attracting new players.

I have a question. How many people here regularly listen to classical music? Now, nobody in their right mind will say that Mozart's music is bad, but few of us listen to it because it's foreign to most of us. It's not part of our American cultural heritage. Most of us identify with country music because it's a major part of our culture. We heard it as kids and listened to it all our lives.

Today's young people identify with the music of their generation, and just as many people here don't easily relate to Mozart, likewise, most kids don't relate well to the music, country or otherwise, of us older folks.

I say that if we are trying to attract new younger players, we have to do it by meeting those younger people on their own musical terms.

I listen to classical music quite frequently,why? Because I like the blending of the different instruments,the rise & fall of the composition as it's being played,the different parts played either by a single instrument or in unison.The best way to listen to classical music is through head phones in order to really appreciate the sounds & the arrangements.I also listen to a lot of "Smooth Jazz".Shoutcast internet radio is a good place to hear all genres of music,from some of the newest to the classics & everything in between.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 1 Sep 2012 5:25 am

Realistically we become so absorbed in thoughts of past and present events musically, it becomes difficult to anticipate the current trendings away from the legible lyrics that survived nearly 50 years of various forms of criticism. The percentages of those who truly enjoy songs written by such great songwriters as Bill Anderson, or Harlan Howard will never be known. I have observed that those who find enjoyment, as many do in good country lyrics, and arrangements by support musicians, are declining at an alarming rate. The void left behind by numerous country music entertainers, brings about a sort of an opposing nemesis to what was once known as country music. Think about it! Hank Thompson and Kitty Wells were both successful in singing The "WILD SIDE OF LIFE" in different contexts, one expressing disdain, while the other denying such expressed behaviorism. Many country folks kept both recordings on the charts for long periods of time. Shenanigans can be detected in
every level of humanity; it did not originate with those who have grown to favor country music.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 1 Sep 2012 7:46 am

Perception, perception, perception. There was one table of a birthday party at our job last night. About ten from that table were into Hank, Jr. I looked at the guys on stage.....no boots, no square toed boots, no vest and not even one hat. Plus one of our singers that does some of that material was not there. I don't think any one of those ten will be back.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 1 Sep 2012 3:39 pm

"A Country Boy Can Survive", so says Hank Jr. Age-old tradition warns of "Casting The First Stone". Perhaps there is a huge difference in complaining rather than "Casting The First Stone". My interpretation would be just another "Run of the mill band" that would give country music a bad name.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 2 Sep 2012 1:06 am

I like cheese.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Sep 2012 3:31 am

It becomes very easy for the train of thoughts to suddenly jump the tracks and catapult down a slope of no return. I had originally surmised that in this "land of opportunity" (according to those who have no problem gathering great riches) anything is possible; even for those striving with limited resources. The pedal steel guitar is an entirely new experience for those who climb tall buildings, or set speed records in gas-fired mechanized vehicles. Progressiveness slows to a crawl while taking lessons to become a speed demon on the pedal steel guitar. There are known to be a world of dabblers who persist on occasion, trying to escape the basic rudiments level of playing the instrument. Big men love big challenges! There you go.. sit yourself down, and make the steel sound "pretty"!

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 2 Sep 2012 10:17 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Indeed Brint, the same argument can be applied to classical music. (Why did you put it in quotation marks?,) and it is a problem. The kids can't identify with it and don't want to listen to it or learn how to play it. Remember, the subject is attracting new players.

Mike, putting it in quotes was my clumsy attempt to allude to the fact that for many people the word "classical" is the kiss of death, leading to closed-minded responses. (It's like "tofu".) That certainly wasn't clear.

But to my point: You say "The kids can't identify with it and don't want to listen to it or learn how to play it". That's a gross generalization. In fact there are still young people taking up the performance of classical music, and attending classical concerts. Many generations have come and gone, with many changes in mass taste in music, and yet classical music endures, thanks to those who "get" it. And no calculated effort to make it "kids-friendly" is needed to make that happen.

You might be thinking "We're talking here (in this thread) about the instrument, not a style of music." And I am by no means intending to necessarily identify the steel guitar with a style of music. So let's leave the subject of classical music, and consider the instrument question.

There is, and has always, as far as I know, been a complete absence of use of the oboe in music that is fashionable with the broad youth culture. Yet there are young people who take up the oboe--not large numbers, but enough to keep the oboe chairs in the orchestras of the world filled. There's no intrinsic reason the oboe couldn't be used more in pop, rock, country, or jazz music; it just seems the players' muses do not lead them in those directions much. Do oboe players have a forum where they talk about "We have to make the oboe attractive to young people by getting it into the kind of music the generalized youth population currently relates to"?

I suspect not. I think oboists realize they're inhabiting a niche that's well off the beaten track, and they don't care. They and their fellow members of oboe world love it, and that's good enough for them.

Meanwhile, steel guitar, as evidenced by, among other things, the size of the membership of the SGF and the content of what is posted here, is, as it happens, already much more widely present in the culture than oboe, anyway. Why, then, all the fretting about the popularity position of the instrument? Why not be content to love the instrument and know that love is shared with others, whether they be many or few?

If a steel player wants to play Lady Gaga tunes because he/she really wants to, I say "More power to you!" But, bottom line, the steel guitar (as much as any instrument) owes its survival to the fact that it's a rewarding instrument to play (not talking financial reward necessarily!).

I just don't get the whole fretting about "attracting new players" thing. Do we really think there won't always be some people who "get" it?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Sep 2012 11:23 am

I agree with Brint 100%. Thanks, well written and thoughtful.

I also differentiate between "attracting new players" and "attracting young players." I see many new players, by virtue of the fact that they contact me requesting my instructional products. I also see their posts here on the Forum. Many are players in their 30s and 40s, on up to seniors in their 60s through 80s. I just got an email from a man who wants to learn non-pedal guitar; he's in his 80s. We constantly see posts here from new Forumites who start with "I'm a newby to steel... etc."

Additonally, I know the instrument is being played by MANY young players. Look at a lot of "alternative" or "roots" type bands, as well as "hot new country" groups and you'll see young players in their 20s. Check out the musician's referral places in Craigslist and elsewhere and you'll find younger players. The thing is, these guys don't go to steel shows, so don't go looking for one to open up at ISGC anytime soon. First, these guys are working musicians who frankly can't afford to spend $1500 on a weekend at a steel show, or burn a weekend of gigs. I didn't go to my first steel show until I was 40 years old (1988, ISGC). Still, I manage to see a few players in their 20s and younger at the major steel shows, though not onstage predominantly (Austin and Jonathan being the rare exceptions).

I think people are predominantly attracted to steel guitar because of its ability to play beautiful melodies so exquisitely and with verbal inflection, in the hands of the right players.

My good friend Ron Elliott said onstage at ISGC one year his opinion that what people are seeking at steel shows is the playing of beautiful, recognizeable melodies that bring happiness and peace of mind to the listener, and what we're seeking is essentially that: entertainment that makes us happy, feel at peace, and remove us from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that plague us in our daily lives.

The majority of the Forum are either hobbyists or only part-time players. For most of us, it's simply recreation. But "recreation" means "to recreate" something, doesn't it? So what is it that we are recreating?

I believe that when we 100% immerse ourselves in any endeavor... steel guitar, bass fishing, motorcycles, whatever... we are recreating the frame of mind of our childhood years, when there were no pressures, no problems at work with the boss or at home with the wife, summer lasted forever and we could without care pour our alpha waves 100% into whatever struck our fantasies. At least for a couple hours, all you need to concentrate on is how Hughey played "Look At Us," the rest is put aside for those few moments.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Sep 2012 11:58 am

Brint Hannay,

Allurements are the keys to great successes in the real world. The average person is held captive to things that shine, or become entranced upon hearing a beautiful voice calling you from afar. Showcases have been around longer than anyone on this forum. Enticements galore can be found everywhere we go. Shiny and colorful new automobiles, diamond rings with assorted jewelry, often tempts the big spender, while a loved one is purring approval like a kitten. Steel guitars are now priced in a category that enables big spenders to free the moths from their coffers. Have you ever noticed how polite waitresses can be at swank eateries? Are they really that delighted to wait on you, hand and foot; or do they instinctively know that it pays to be pleasant around most walk-in clientele? The food always tastes better when it is served with a smile. Music store managers are much different. They generally maintain that authoritative look, one that serves to send signals of musical wisdom; as if to ask, did you come to buy or mess around with a few displays? At this point in time, steel guitars should be featured as displayed instruments, as well as their cousins, the Spanish 6 strings guitars.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 2 Sep 2012 3:13 pm

Herb Steiner wrote:...I know the instrument is being played by MANY young players. Look at a lot of "alternative" or "roots" type bands, as well as "hot new country" groups and you'll see young players in their 20s.

Herb, you just illustrated my point. Younger players are taking up the steel and using it in their music. Us older guys should encourage them to follow their own directions, and not insist that they play old songs that have little or no relevance to them.

There was a player at this years L.A. jam who discovered the steel about 2 years ago. This man does not have a country music background, and quite literally had never heard "Crazy Arms" prior to the jam. The guy (who is highly accomplished on a variety of other instruments,) is currently playing steel with a singer/songwriter from Australia, who does not sing country or country style music.

This man is not an accomplished steel player yet. I have every confidence that he'll be great in a few years. But he's out there gigging right now. In my opinion, this is the kind of musician we should be trying to attract.

I don't know why he decided to learn to play the steel, but it was not because he was exposed to songs like Faded Love or A Way To Survive.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Sep 2012 4:51 pm

Mike,

The novelty wears off most things in life after we've been exposed to them over long periods of time. Oh sure! Hearing a new melody with lots of interesting chord changes will restore our zeal to learn something new. Newcomers taking up the pedal steel and those who haven't ever heard "CRAZY ARMS" probably never will under most circumstances. Birds of a feather, usually flock together. Nothing is more rewarding than to jam with a good rhythm guitarist who knows country music from the 50's through the 70's. Country music became hit and miss after the start of the 80's. No excuses! Either they know and play country music, or get set to pay the dues.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 Sep 2012 3:36 am

In deference to JOHN HUGHEY and his big hit steel arrangement of "LOOK AT US", very few songs written in that time period could impact a group of steel guitarists, the way that song did. I doubt that the largest groups of various listeners could appreciate JOHN HUGHEY'S efforts at the time it was released to the public's radio stations. I think it would be safe to say that the levels of enjoyment derived upon hearing the colorful layout created by the great accomplished steel guitarist, met the approval of beginners and right up to the top players, where JOHN'S peerages still roam freely about his old haunts throughout our land. I met JOHN HUGHEY years ago at a HUNTER MOUNTAIN SHOW up in the CATSKILL MOUNTAINS, west of the Hudson River, in NEW YORK STATE. I was satisfied that all the good things I'd heard about him were true.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 3 Sep 2012 6:04 pm

Look like someone they would trust..........play something they know..............then play what you want them to hear............perception, perception, perception.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Sep 2012 4:55 am

Roual Ranes,

Yes, of course! Still, everyone who lives and breathes will find themselves tempted to overstep boundaries of fair dealings with others. How many times have you heard about cover-ups in the auto industry? I know that I've lost count! Moving back to the pertinent issues at hand, which is centered on the pedal steel guitar, and those who influence the progressiveness of various serious-minded players, many issues have yet to be dealt with in the name of fair play. I'll just say that it may come to pass sometime in the future that the most popular steel guitar shows will not prevent promising young players from performing, once they have attained a high level of capability on the instrument. I'm hoping to see more culturally motivated leaderships.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 4 Sep 2012 9:14 am

You want to attract new young players? Buy 'em a new (expensive) amp. That way if they don't like playing it, they can sell it and buy a car or a house. In fact, scratch that. Just buy 'em a nice car, but they MUST play steel(doesn't have to have pedals) until their fingers bleed or until they turn 30 years old, whichever happens first. Problem solved.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Sep 2012 9:49 am

Bud,

It would be gratifying to see numerous young culturally minded individuals suddenly becoming aware of the potentialities found in the pedal steel guitar. It matters not how gifted the subjects may appear to be.. the pedal steel guitar's most notable features are best defined as a multiplicity of very technical possibilities. Not a single soul, past or present has ever, or will ever run the gamut of possible licks, scales, or runs in one lifetime. The steel guitar will dwarf the most promising intellectual's wit, should he\she attempt to master the profoundness of the instrument in its entirety.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 4 Sep 2012 10:04 am

Bill -
I agree with you 100%.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 4 Sep 2012 7:34 pm

Just wondering,WHY would an old geezer such as myself want to attract new pickers,Don't we have enough competition as it is.

YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Sep 2012 3:36 am

Charles,

Take for example, the incredible numbers of would-be guitarists in any community in America.. well-to-do children from the ritziest neighborhoods, with MARTIN and GIBSON guitars. Only the best will do, don't you know? My point alludes to the fact that numbers and richness will not by some magic produce another "Buddy" or "Jimmy" in the foreseeable future. The road to their levels of professionalization is closed to traffic.. so to speak. If by chance, a bright and youthful shining star could ever reach their levels of pedal steel guitar expertise and accumulated knowledge, who would complain?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Sep 2012 7:14 am

"Do we really think there won't always be some people who "get" it?"

I think those were the final words of Teleman talking about the Viola Da Gamba. And, in fact, there are people who still play the Viola Da Gamba. Just no kids.

My guess is that the pedal steel will eventually fade out almost completely except for a few players who end up working in tribute and "genre" bands. But as an active contemporary force? ...not likely.

I think that Robert Randolph is kind of a fluke and not likely to generate a lot of interest from younger players mainly because his style is so rooted in the Sacred Steel tradition that most young folks are not exposed to.

There is no real call for pedal steel in today's contemporary music. Like it or not, I think it is destined to be a niche instrument, like so many instruments like the harpsichord, Viola da Gamba, and other instruments that were once popular but whose time has passed.

I don't think we will see any new masters of the instrument like Buddy E or any of the greats that have passed on.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Sep 2012 7:27 am

Bill McCloskey wrote: I think that Robert Randolph is kind of a fluke and not likely to generate a lot of interest from younger players mainly because his style is so rooted in the Sacred Steel tradition that most young folks are not exposed to.

True, except for the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of younger fans who know his name and buy his recordings as front-man of his own band, which no other steel guitarist has ever accomplished. I don't know about "most young folks" but, IMO, waaay more young folks are paying attention to Robert than to any other steeler on the planet. It is my impression that there are LOTS of young steelers coming up in the sacred steel tradition; it's just that you or I wouldn't typically be in a position to notice (just as we were unaware that sacred steel even existed for 50 years before it emerged from the churches and went public/secular).

Other than all that, I agree completely.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Sep 2012 8:20 am

"I don't know about "most young folks" but, IMO, waaay more young folks are paying attention to Robert than to any other steeler on the planet. "

I agree with that statement but I'm not sure how that translates into new players. I haven't seen any evidence, and as you say, not being part of the Church of God, I'm not in a position to judge how many new players are coming up. The question is: will they cross over to the mainstream. Church of God, despite Robert Randolph and the Campbell Brothers, seems to frown on playing the music for a secular audience.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Sep 2012 8:45 am

Bill McCloskey wrote: Church of God, despite Robert Randolph and the Campbell Brothers, seems to frown on playing the music for a secular audience.

Aretha Franklin and many others also faced a backlash from their churches when they 'went secular', but still they spawned a huge movement of soul music that then coexisted on both sides of the church/secular divide. With sacred steel, too, the genie is now out of the bottle. Where it will lead, I don't know but I'm interested to watch and see! (A few items of note: it was great to see and hear sacred steeler, Lonnie Bennett jamming at length in the Jackson room with Zane King at this year's ISGC. Where might that lead? Also, a few years ago, Chuck Campbell of the Campbell Brothers was honored on national television by receiving a National Endowment for the Arts National Heritage Fellowship award - same year they honored Jerry Douglas.) Whether this movement will grow or fade in the secular domain remains to be seen. I sure hope it grows!!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Sep 2012 8:57 am

Bill M., and Jim C.,

It isn't possible to predict the future developments that may or may not create a surge of interest among musicians who are constantly looking for new challenges. I respect your wisdom in musical matters, but not to the point of assuming that either of you are champion prognosticators, in foretelling future trendings among ambitious young musicians in the days ahead. I wouldn't willingly lock horns with either of you on current events. You are both too well versed on matters of importance regarding players and their instruments.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Sep 2012 9:01 am

All predictions are risky, especially those about the future!