Building speed

Steve Benzian · Post by **Steve Benzian** » 16 Sep 2002 9:41 pm

Would some of you guys that play single notes fast mind sharing some of your methods....especially on C6 single note riffs. What did you do to get fast (besides practice alot)?
Is a bar slide preferred over two picked notes? It would seem to be faster.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Sep 2002 7:27 am

Neither is faster -- both bar movement and picking patterns can be used to play as fast as you'll ever need. In most cases, bar movement only works for two notes. To maintain the speed, you need to combine bar movement, right hand picking patterns, and sometimes pedal slurs as well.

Concentrate on the musicality first. Find a melody -- just hum one along with a chord progression. Map it out on the guitar as many ways as you can think of. Figure out which ways SOUND best and which can be done FASTEST. It's often a compromise. Buddy Emmons is a master of playing in a punctuated fashion -- especially on C6 -- he picks A LOT OF NOTES. This creates a more solid, punchy sound than would be the case if a lot of slurs were added. Listen to sax players -- they only use slurs for the effect -- learn to emulate the phrasings of other instruments.

Once you have the music in hand, remember that it is impossible to play anything fast that you can't play slow. Use a metronome and gradually increase the tempo. Build technique using a course designed for the right hand -- Joe Wright and Jeff Newman both have excellent courses from very different points of view. Work on technique as an objective -- don't just assume it will come from playing.

Pick blocking is a very useful technique, but remember that neither Buddy Emmons nor Herby Wallace pick block to any great extent -- but also realize that Paul Franklin and Joe Wright DO. (there's more'n one way to skin a cat)

Hope that helps.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 17 Sep 2002 10:00 am

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 17 Sep 2002 10:35 am

thanks for that informative answer. It makes much sense and I can apply it to non pedal & dobro.

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 17 Sep 2002 10:35 am

Makes no difference which way you skin the cat, the cat aint gonna like it!

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 17 Sep 2002 11:23 am

Larry, sax players don't tongue every note. In fact, percentage wise, they tongue very few.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 17 Sep 2002 11:58 am

LB has been getting entirely too many kudos lately. SINCE I AM VERY JEALOUS, I feel compelled to offer some suggestions as well. Two exercises that I have found effective for improving speed. The first is to practice bar movement, something which you need to do quite a lot when riffing/improvising single note lines on C6. I play a chromatic scale (consecutive notes separated by a 1/2 tone), starting on a particular note, and finishing an octave or more higher, using 2 or more adjacent strings. For example, start on fret 2, string 7, for a D note. Play consecutive frets up to fret 7 (G note), then drop back to fret 1, string 5 (G#), up to fret 7 (D). Set your metronome to a comfortable speed and then work your way up. Mix it up, first with only slides, then try combinations of sliding and picking. It's hard to play 6-8 consecutive notes at a high speed on the same string, but after doing it a while, you'll be surprised at how easy it is to play a more common 2-4 note run on the same string. Mix up the number of notes and the strings you use. Also, try to play proper chromatic runs; don't repeat nor skip any notes when you switch strings. It'll help you know the notes better if you're forced to think about what you're doing. The other exercise that I find valuable is alternating picking on the same fret. First, start at the 2nd string, alternating finger and thumb, go down to the 9th string. That's 8 notes in a row. After you get to the 9th string, go back up to the 2nd string, again alternating thumb and finger. Try starting at the 3 string instead, try mixing up 6 and 8 note runs up and down the same fret, setting your metronome to a comfortable speed, and increasing it as you get more proficient. Even though C6 single note runs generally have more bar movement than on E9, you still get most of your scale at the same fret so you want to be able to move up and down the fret easily. But unlike E9, you can't do much in the way of pedal mashing to give you a break in your picking, so you are really relying on pure fingering and slides into and out of the fret.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Sep 2002 12:13 pm

Dave,
Nor do sax players slur every note (or every other note), which was the point I was shootin' at. Perhaps it was a poor analogy. Sounded good at the time.

Jeff,
Excellent advice. I always learn from your posts (now, is that better?

)

Kenny,
You're right about the cat.

Jerry,

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 17 September 2002 at 01:19 PM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 17 Sep 2002 2:01 pm

I always learn from your posts (now, is that better?

I don't know. I'll think about it.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 17 Sep 2002 2:37 pm

I'm certainly not a speed picker by any means but I do listen intently to the guys I think are the best. Like a bunch out here I'm a Buddy Emmons fan and I could listen to Lloyd Green all day. BE seems to take the smooth approach and lets his notes say something more than just a bunch of notes coming outa there like bees. Lloyd too has a very smooth approach and the tone to the bone approach. I've heard both of these guys play with blinding speed but they say so much more when they play smooth IMO. I once heard a Louis Armstong interview when he was alive and he said it wasn't what you were playing that counted as much what you were saying. I was telling this drummer the other day that played too much that he didn't get payed by the note.

I'd rather hear the smoother sustain with the great tone than a jackhammer riff that was here and then gone.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 17 Sep 2002 6:28 pm

Play scales really slowly, concentrating on tone and time. Gradually increase speed. It doesn't matter which scales you use, just this process will increase speed and encourage good time.

Steve Benzian · Post by **Steve Benzian** » 17 Sep 2002 7:36 pm

Thank you all for the good suggestions. I'm trying them all.

I see Jerry Brightman checked in. Jerry, how about a few tips?

Robert Rogers · Post by **Robert Rogers** » 18 Sep 2002 10:27 am

Steve Im not a fast player but I enjoy trying.As a hand exercise I sqeeze a rubber exercise ball in my right hand to keep it loose and in my left hand for control of the bar.You can get theses balls in the sports section at wal-mart.Just my 2 cents.Hope that helps.

Robert[This message was edited by Robert Rogers on 18 September 2002 at 11:30 AM.][This message was edited by Robert Rogers on 18 September 2002 at 11:31 AM.]

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 18 Sep 2002 11:39 am

Just take it slow at first. You MUST know your guitar and everything that all of those pedals and levers do, as well as your tuning. Then learn to think ahead of your playing. It's hard to discribe. When I'm playing something really fast, I'm thinking ahead of what I'm playing. You have to put in the time so that what you play fast just happens without thinking about it. That's what allows you to think ahead.
There are so many things that go into speed picking and a lot of the variables are personal preference and what works for you. BUT, practice, practice, practice. It's like riding a bike. When you are just about to give up, your riding. It's kinda like that. One day I went to my guitar and it all feel in place.
Good Luck my friend.

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 Sep 2002 5:22 am

I too will confess..or ..admit..I am not a Speed picker..But I do have several Speed Picking excecises I pratice with routine. Who knows, maybe one day I will feel comfortable enough to just plain let 'em rip. One thing is for certain as mentioned above, if you can't play it slow with heart and soul there's no way it can be played fast, even without heart and soul. One of the most difficult things to learn , I believe, on any Instrument is the discipline of slow meter. I agree and prescribe to all of the above comments about slow meter practice. There is an amazing amount of items that can be learned from slow meter. Pedal and Knee lever response, string tone, guitar sustain, finger control, pitch, blocking etc...yada yada yada the list goes on and on..If one can conquer the discipline of slow meter they would be in my opinion well on their way. When I was first getting serious about 6 string guitar in my youth ,
( that would be on the ship with Columbus ) I had a jazz teacher who would have me play the same scales starting at the third fret up to the 12th fret and back to the 3 rd fret. I would do this excercise without stopping, one long, really long, I'm talking long scale excercise. If I made a mistake or fumble, the rule was to start over from the beginning. The goal was to do this without error and then I could move on to the next thing on my practice list. Well being a rocker back then I really wanted to get past this excercise fast so I would always try to play it as fast as I could 'cause it was not fun. It didn't take too long to realize that I was pretty crappy at the scale excercise, until..yes..what a revelation..until I played it slow. You see there was no rule about meter . I still play these scale excercises on both the 6 string and the Steel and the rule is the same, if I mess it up I have to start over. But I do them S L O W L Y .

great advise in the above posts..wish I had read them about 25 years ago..
tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 19 September 2002 at 06:23 AM.]

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 19 Sep 2002 9:28 am

Hurry with patience!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 19 Sep 2002 11:41 am

Tony--I DID play steel guitar for Columbus on one of his voyages ("I'll Sail My Ship Alone"). As for a speed picking exercise, I use one string alternating thumb and fingers on the same string. This effect was used on a lot of Hawaiian songs. It was part of the Alkire lesson plan--not as easy as it seems. Joe

Steve Benzian · Post by **Steve Benzian** » 19 Sep 2002 3:36 pm

Joe's post brings up something......say you have a choice of playing 2 notes in several ways: 1. pick same string twice with same finger, 2. pick same string twice with different fingers, 3.slide, 4.pick the same notes but on adjacent strings using different fingers. What's preferred? Or does it matter? I suppose it would be good to be able to do them all. Method 2 sort of simulates using a flat pick becasue you pick the string in different directions if using thumb and middle.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 19 Sep 2002 3:51 pm

Steve--This was done on some of the Hawaiian songs played at a rapid fire triplicate speed using the same string and not changing the note. An example would be "The Hilo March" which some of the old timers will remember the technique. Yes, you could go up and down the scale using this technique. Joe

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 19 Sep 2002 3:52 pm

The easy (and I think correct) answer is "all the above". Knowledge is good. Skills are good. Different solutions to a problem are good. But I also often wonder, as I work out alternative fingerings, postions, etc., if I am diluting my time and concentration with this pursuit of total coverage vs. more concentrated zeroing in on select options. I look forward to other picker's takes on this.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Sep 2002 7:42 am

Jon, you are correct, if one spends all his time at batting practice he will never perfect his fielding skills.
tp

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 20 Sep 2002 2:27 pm

if one spends all his time at batting practice he will never perfect his fielding skills

Except, a great fielder MAYBE makes $5M a year. A great hitter makes $20M. There's a point there somewhere, and when I find it, I'll be sure to let you know.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Sep 2002 2:57 pm

Yeh but whats 15M between friends !

tp

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Sep 2002 4:34 am

I practice for accuracy, and the speed comes by itself...once the patterns I'm playing become "reflex". Until you don't have to think about the "mechanics" of what you're doing (3rd string, middle finger, B-pedal), your speed will suffer. But yes, it still takes lots of practice!

As far as picking, sliding, and blocking techniques, there are no hard and fast rules. Use whatever you can do to give you what you are looking for.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 24 Sep 2002 8:28 am

I was one of the post-lap steel type players when I first started, so consequently I unknowingly felt I had to include pedals in everything I played. It wasnt until much later that I finally got hip to REALLY learning the open tunings on both necks of my guitar. Lately my ability to play fast on C6 has been greatly improved by practicing my little 6 string lap steel when I'm just sitting around the house. I have it set up like the inside 6 "home row" (A to C) of the bottom neck. Really concentrating on what string to string intervals are what in smaller groups have done wonders for me. I'm sorta relearning my tunings now from that more basic perspective. There's so much going on on a pedal steel, that sometimes just limiting yourself actually helps you learn more. The guys that play musically interesting fast stuff are able to because they know their tunings....not simply because their fingers move fast.