A "CARTER STARTER" Has Landed In My Grasp

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 10 Aug 2012 8:01 am

Chris, you could use it as a sheet music holder. (This might work for a Zum as well)

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 10 Aug 2012 9:14 am

and it would work as a tomato deflector.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 11 Aug 2012 6:26 am

I regret letting my carter starter go. My 7 (soon to be 8uyrs ) year old son wants to get in to playing. He's a drummer now so I am hoping it will be a Mike Johnson repeat story

.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 12 Aug 2012 4:05 am

Quentin,

I've found CHANGER SYSTEMS of pedal steel guitars to be very much like the musicians who play the instruments. The "CARTER" student model is not an exception. Most changers remind me of boisterous, and quite often unpredictable personages. The changer systems are at the CORE, all to often, of major problems. The more complex changers are in terms of elaborate construction, the greater are the chances for flukier unsolvable problems.. very much like wayward clientele groping for problematic means to irritate the innocence of good management. Just my two cents worth..

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 12 Aug 2012 9:47 am

Bill, I believe the Carter starter has a pull-release changer...?
Would you like to tell me how you like this particular type of changer and how it compares to the regular all-pull changer that is found on most guitars nowadays?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 13 Aug 2012 4:50 am

Bent Romnes,

My plans to "RESCUE" the "CARTER STARTER" were suddenly interrupted when an old friend who I consider the most proficient Spanish guitarist hereabouts, and who once lived here in Pittsfield, MA. offered to trade a vintage ('66) hollow bodied guitar for the "pedal steel". I really had a hard time letting the "CARTER" slip away so soon. I endured the loss of such a challenge to build new life into the "STARTER" steel. I was set to administer a tiny blue flame on the most critical areas of the "CARTER" changer system. That was an area that IMO required immediate attention. My criterion includes a faultless changer system, wherefrom many faults are known to materialize under serious scrutiny. Show me a changer that is 100 percent foolproof, and I'll show you a "happy camper". It matters not, if a steel guitar is all pull, all push, or other, provided it doesn't require constant adjustments to maintain desired pitches.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 15 Aug 2012 4:17 am

Bill, the question was, simply, did it have a pull-release or all pull and how do you like this particular type.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 15 Aug 2012 10:39 am

Bent,

The "CARTER STARTER" featured the "pull-release".. that is to say it was spring loaded in order to actuate the effects of lowering. The middle of the pull fingers are jointed.. much like your elbow in an arm wrestling or Indian wrestling contest. When you overpower the spring resistance the simulated "elbow" would fold a bit, allowing the strings to lower their pitches to a desired level. My homemade all pull steel method is the most foolproof method of lowering the pitches that I've seen, as of now. As I've written, I didn't become overwhelmed with the "CARTER". I'm sold on another method, virtually free of troublous necessary adjustments to maintain desired tonalities. If I may quote THOMAS EDISON once again when he uttered these words to a group who had doubts about his experimentations, by saying, "I know a thousand things that won't work, and one thing that will." There are many would be EDISONS in our society of instrument builders. As usual, retailers seem to find little difficulty in circulating such goods and services.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 15 Aug 2012 5:16 pm

Bill, Thanks for that one, Edison and all...

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 15 Aug 2012 8:45 pm

Actually the Carter Starter changer is an all-pull changer, very similar to their pro model, but is set up as a double raise, single lower. Also the fingers that are not in use are inoperable unless you cut the slots out for the rest of the fingers.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 16 Aug 2012 6:35 am

Bob, Thanks for explaining with pic and everything.
You obviously know

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 16 Aug 2012 11:43 am

We all make adustments on whatever PSG we buy so I understand making adjustments on the Carter Starter

But I can't see taking a S-10 student model and spending money on it trying to bring it up somewhat comparable with a pro PSG.

I can buy a used D-10 Sho-Bud for $1400 and take all the parts off the C6 neck and use for repairs on the E9 neck if needed or when needed and put a pad where the C6 neck was for almost no money.

Your Carter is at best only going to be worth about $700 and your Stage One around $900 after you spend $200 to $400 on trying to pro them.
All thewhile your almost no money mod now SD-10 Sho-Bud is still worth around $1400 + over $400 in Sho-Bud parts left over which would offset the cost if you wished to spend $400 in extra pedals and levers which I'm sure would also be offset somewhat by an increase of the over all value in the sale price.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Aug 2012 12:33 pm

Bob Tuttle,

There seems to be a bit of dissimilarity in the "CARTER" you own and the one that slipped through my fingers. I'm confident that if we were engaged in an open debate, I could point out some points of interest; where one man's genius, is another man's poison.

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 16 Aug 2012 12:43 pm

Bill,
It could be that there was more than one generation of "Starters". I'm only commenting on the one I have. The only reason I decided to make the alterations to this one was that it was given to me and I decided it would be a good emergency back-up guitar. Since I play the Day setup, I decided to switch the A & C pedals and reconfigure the knee levers to a more familiar setup. Then I discovered the pickup was bad. I lucked out and bought two GeorgeL's pickups on eBay and paid $36 for the pair. I used one of them on the Carter. That's all that I spent on the alterations, with the exception of the lift kit I put on it.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Aug 2012 1:52 pm

Bob Tuttle,

I have a lot of respect for a man who like yourself has only good things to report to readers. Sure wish you were living nearby here in Massachusetts. Thank you so very much for providing useful information on matters concerning the "CARTER STARTER" steel guitar. You are an excellent player of the pedal steel guitar. Your good friend in the video sounds great also. (West Texas Spring Jam)

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 16 Aug 2012 4:10 pm

Thanks Bill, and I will pass that on to him.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 16 Aug 2012 4:15 pm

I'll say one thing for the Carter Starter; it's not very heavy. This afternoon I decided to move around all the cases in my basement containing pedal steels, so that I could open them and label up which is which. I'm exhausted.

They seem to be getting heavier every year, or am I just starting to feel my age?

I can see why players who spend a lot of time on the road complain about weights. I'm wondering if the reason people don't take up pedal steel is because of its bulkiness. By comparison, an acoustic guitar is as light as a feather.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Aug 2012 5:37 pm

I played a Carter Starter on a few outdoor gigs a couple of years ago and it sounded fine. These were Halloween week gigs on a farm, very cold, late October nights, dusty, etc. I didn't want to take the Emmons out on nights like that, so the Carter Starter was perfect! and super lightweight.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 16 Aug 2012 8:37 pm

Bo,Got to agree with you here.Never understood why anyone would spend one cent trying to upgrade a Mavrick or a Carter Starter. Makes about as much sense as putting a five thousand dollar set of rims on a Yugo.YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 Aug 2012 9:56 am

You're absolutely right, Charlie, you betcha. After playing non-pedal for about 40 yrs., when the Carter Starter first came out I bought one, as it was so cheap, and I didn't know whether I wanted to make the change over to pedals. I subsequently bought a Sho-Bud, and the difference was like the difference between black and white and color. But, not wanting to consign the Carter Farter to the waste bin, over the years I extended the legs, changed the pickup, replaced the pedals with Emmons and realigned them, but, after all these alterations, came to the conclusion that you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear (as the saying goes). I don't mind swapping things round from my spares box, but investing good money in something that will never be a professional model makes no sense.

But the mechanism is good, and I've resisted selling it because I have the idea of putting it into a pedal-operated Dobro some day. Now that I'm retired I'm stocking up future projects so that I don't stagnate.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 17 Aug 2012 3:39 pm

Alan,About maybe three years ago I thought maybe I would get a Carter Starter because of the weight to take to small gigs,My MSA d-ten classic was rough on my old back.A guy here in my town called me[someone told him I played steel]and said he had bought a Carter Starter[to learn on,he did'nt play.]he asked if I woulod set it up for him,I said sure,be glad to. Best thing that could happen to me. That was the FIRST and LAST Starter I will ever touch.In my opinion just a piece of crap;Would rather break my back with my MSA [again just my opinion] the most dependable and best built guitar ever,bar none.YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 Aug 2012 3:58 pm

Well said, Charlie. The Carter Farter was intended as a low-cost introduction to the pedal steel, but, like a cheap guitar with a bad action, did more damage than its worth. I don't know how many people who wanted to play pedal steel bought one and decided that they couldn't master it, so gave up pedal steel for good, when they could have bought a used professional instrument and become proficient. As you say, it's a piece of crap.

Sure, there are old-time steel guitarists who can produce good music on it, but, then, those same proficient players could probably produce good music from a barbed-wire fence.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 17 Aug 2012 6:10 pm

Alan,You are SOOOOO right. When I retired years ago ,I spent almost every day at my friends and band mates music store. Can't count the times some one would come in with their 8 or 10 year kid that wanted to learn to play guitar. the parents would want to buy the cheapest piece of crap in the store.An old 20 dollar sears or wards with the strings a half inch above the fret board,Chet Atkins could'nt have played a tune on the damn thing much less a 10 year old kid. Yoy try to tell these dummies the kid won't be able to learn on it.Do they listen,[HELL NO].I wonder how many great pickers never made it because of it. I personally know at least three guys that wanted to play steel.They made the HUGE mistake of trying to learn on a Mavrick.[because someone who was trying to unload one of those damn things conned them into buying one,After spending all their time just trying to tune it,they just gave up.YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Aug 2012 4:36 am

This complaining and bickering by making derogatory statements about the "CARTER STARTER" pedal steel guitar is unwarranted commentary. The argument that a beginner couldn't make headway on the instrument is not the sort of attitude 3rd parties are going to buy into. There is no truth whatsoever, in those comments. It's a known fact that some beginners are very adept at making their way to the top through perseverance, regardless of provisional or unprofessional standardized musical equipment. Furthermore, as I see it, the "CARTER STARTER" surpasses other student models made in the past.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 18 Aug 2012 5:46 am

Bill, with all due respect, you started this post, and if you didn't want to hear dissenting comment then you shouldn't have. This forum is open to all opinions, and if you open a post you need to be prepared for folks who don't agree with yours. They have a right to theirs just like you do. Try to keep an open mind and listen to why they have that opinion. Opinions are often formed by actual personal experience, and thus factual. As a person who has often been maligned for their comments, I would think you would know better than to diss someone else for comments related to their personal experiences, whether you agree or not.

As far as "truth", where did you become judge? Charles and Alan both related their personal experiences, which in their eyes are fact. If you can't put up with dissenting views, then just don't post.

My 2 cents....