Seasoned tuning?

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 28 Aug 2002 12:51 pm

What causes the tuning to raise in the summer and drop in the winter? I have a keyless Sierra S-14, alu neck, and the total difference is more than half a note step between summer and winter – same thing with other guitars I´ve had. Indoor temperature is the same all year, and the air humidity probably varies a lot less up here than in USA between summer and winter.
Just curious to know.

Anders in Falun, Sweden.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 28 Aug 2002 12:56 pm

The tilt of the Earth?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Aug 2002 2:55 pm

Actually, my Sierra is just the opposite. It goes flat in the heat and sharp in the cold. I figure it's expansion and contraction of the body and strings.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 29 Aug 2002 1:31 pm

Now, this is spooky! Well, b0b´s Sierra and his dad lives in a climate that´s virtually tropical compared to the swedish climate, but I must say that I didn´t expect the opposite reaction. Maybe some metalurgist (is it called that in english?) at the nearby steel plant (SSAB) can explain this. Or can some Forumite?

Anders

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 29 Aug 2002 1:35 pm

I have two Sierra's, 14 and a 12. Mine does have some shift just as b0b but not enough to be bothersome. Hey you have to tune the thing before you play it anyway, right!
I can say though, both of my guitars stay in tune very well. I can change a string and not have to touch the pedal tuning, it will be right on. (Okay, most of the time). I use what is called an even tension setup. All of my strings are gauged to be drawn in tune with the same tension. I start with a .009 on my G# and go to an .080 on my low B. I guess all this comes into play on how it stays in tune.
Whip

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 30 Aug 2002 1:50 am

Whip: What string gauges should I use to get an even tension on a single 14, and wich advantages does an even tension have? (My copedant is at http://groups.msn.com/countryfolketiDalarna/dcmcsfotoalbum.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=91 )

Anders

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 30 Aug 2002 4:28 am

I know I'm gettin this off the actual subject but,I don't understand this "even tension" thing you'all are talkin' about.

Beings the box of rocks that I am, Would some one please enlighten me on this ??

Thanks

[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 30 August 2002 at 05:28 AM.]

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 30 Aug 2002 10:49 am

Anders
I can't answer your question directly. the man who came up with the even tension system lives in Fort Wayne, In. He actually had a patent on it for several years. The idea is that if all your strings need the same pull to be in tune, they will reinforce one another and tend to stay in tune. When I origianlly set mine up, Jack asked me several questions about my guitar. (scale length, tuning, if I wanted plain or wound, etc..) Then starting with the highest note (G#) what gauge did I want to use. I use a .009 and to pull it to a G# requires 19 1/2 lbs. So he then calculated from there what the rest of them would be.
1-F#-.010 2-C#-.013 3-G#-.009 4-E-.011 5-B-.015 6-G#-.018 7-F#-.022W 8-E-.024 9-B-.032 10-G#-.040 11-E-.050 12-B-.070
I started tuning my 14 string with 12 since I found I never used the outside strings, but the first string on it was a G#-.009 and the 14th string was an E-.084 The E was actually supposed to be a .102 but it was a bear to get on. I had to pinch the end of it so it would slide into the changer and it was so big it stuck up above the rest of the strings. I found that the .084 was the bigest one I could put into it without that problem. I can get in touch with Jack for you or you can email and I'll get you his email address. As far as the advantages, the pedal action on my guitars are fast and easy. I don't need to stand up to push a pedal that is grabbing 4 or 5 strings. I play a lot and almost never break a string. I can count on my guitar staying in tune in all kinds of conditions. When it does start to drift out of tune because I'm playing outside in a snowstorm (don't laugh it happened) they all go out the same and I can compensate with my bar to get me through the set.
I use GHS strings if anyone is interested. I get them from Jack. He claims they are the only ones he can get that aren't warehoused. He orders them for me and they are about 3 days old when I get them.
Hope that helps.
Whip[This message was edited by Whip Lashaway on 30 August 2002 at 11:58 AM.][This message was edited by Whip Lashaway on 04 September 2002 at 02:17 PM.]

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 4 Sep 2002 9:04 am

Whip;
Thank you for taking time to answer so precisely. I´ve checked a little with the customs and the taxman, and it seemes to be a little tricky for a private person to import stuff from abroad, so I think I make a halt here. There´s a whole jungle of customs fees, taxes, more taxes, even more taxes again (Sweden is ruled by socialists, and they are experts on taxing people to the bone and a bit further too), VAT (also a tax) and so on, and this slowly drifting detuning is´nt that a big problem after all. I´m just curious to know the cause, especially since b0b´s guitar drifts the opposite way!
The day someone invent factory tuned strings that can be welded to the guitar once and for always, I´ll buy them right away.

Thanks agin!

Anders

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Sep 2002 3:22 pm

I think that the difference is due to materials used in construction. A Siearra has an aluminum body and a wooden neck - the opposite of most brands.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 5 Sep 2002 6:50 am

The Sierra I had and my MSA will be sharp in the cold and flat in heat. Metal reacts the same way.

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 6 Sep 2002 12:44 pm

The other factor is humidity - if there's a lot of moisture in the air, wood will swell up a little... but it's not affected as much by temperature as metal is, so there are a lot of variables. It may also be that wound strings don't stretch or contract as much with temperature change as plain ones.

I used to play instruments (not steel guitar) with gut strings, and humidity really made them nasty.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 12 Sep 2002 8:20 pm

A winter 72 degrees is colder than a summer 72 degrees. Metal ( strings ) expands with heat and retracts with cold.

Bob.

[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 12 September 2002 at 09:21 PM.]

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 13 Sep 2002 9:25 am

I agree with Bob Lee it is definatly exstraction and exspantion of both the body and the strings.Heat exspands and cold exstracts.Think about it and it will make sence.Just like the highwaysexspand in the summer from heat and exstract in the winter from the cold.I met a steel player in Vermont and when he came in the place to play it was about 15 degrees and after about ahalf hour that steel was poring water off of it.It was completly soak and wet. Can you imagin what that will do to that beautiful steel. I won't tell you the brand as the manafacturer would be kind of up set if he took it back because it warpt.
Sam White

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Sep 2002 11:52 am

I think that I read somewhere that Buddy Emmons would carry a hair dryer around with him and use it to warm up his guitar to get it in tune before he started to play. Is there anything to this?

Uff-da!

Post by **b0b** » 13 Sep 2002 4:47 pm

You didn't read it here.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 13 Sep 2002 5:00 pm

I've heard that story too. Seems like it was when he was on the road with ET, but maybe it was with someone else.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 14 Sep 2002 6:19 am

I remember Buddy telling us that back in England in the mid-eighties. I don't know if he only did that on the guitars he was then playing (MCIs), but he sounded genuine, and advised it when bringing one's steel from the cold into a warm room. He warned against checking the tuning BEFORE the guitar had acclimatised to the heat - the hair-dryer was a quick method of acheiving this...

Having said that, I can't recall that he ever actually did it on that short tour, and that was the UK in November.....

------------------
Roger Rettig (NTSGA #147): Emmons LGIII(8+8), Fender Stringmaster (0+0) and a Zumsteel D10 on order!!!