Emmons/ Sho-Bud

Dave Seddon · Post by **Dave Seddon** » 9 Sep 2002 9:37 pm

I have only ever owned a push pull Emmons once and that was a long time ago, I am now considering swapping my Sho-Bud for an Emmons PP, the only thing I am wondering is how does lowering the two B's to Bb affect the travel of the A pedal and for that matter the C pedal. Is it goig to mean a lot more travel and will it make it noisy.
Cheers
Dave.

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 10 Sep 2002 6:45 am

If it's set up right, you probably won't notice a big difference, if you notice any at all. My 82 PP has the 5 and 10 lower and the way it's set up, the A pedal is about the same as my 71 PP WITHOUT the 5 and 10 lower.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 10 Sep 2002 1:32 pm

Dave,
If you put helper springs on the raises, you can reduce pedal and lever travel considerably, so that a half-tone lower is easily accomodated without undue pedal travel.
Richard.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Sep 2002 6:15 pm

Good advise Richard, we do this allthe time.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 10 Sep 2002 6:25 pm

Are you talking helper springs like Sho-Bud uses on their raise fingers or the buffer springs that push-pulls use on the activating rods? I can see how helper springs would help the stiffness of a raise, but how could they possibly reduce the travel? The buffer springs on a push-pull would make the travel longer.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 11 Sep 2002 5:15 am

Jim, I think he's talking about the shock springs used behind the barrels on the bellcranks. They eliminate any notchiness in the travel and allow a little extra travel for the lower to accomplish it's job without a lot of undo travel.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 11 Sep 2002 5:39 am

If you put helper springs on the raises, you can reduce pedal and lever travel considerably

and BS agreed with him.

I understand the springs helping the "notchiness" but still don't see how it's physically possible for them to reduce travel.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Sep 2002 6:43 am

You should know as much as youv'e been around steel guitars Jim, you just connect the pull rods to the finger closer to the body(pivot point) then install helper springs the way all pull guitars do. This makes the pedals push quicker and easier. As I stated before, we do this all the time.
Thankyou Jim.
Bobbe

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 11 Sep 2002 7:32 am

connect the pull rods to the finger closer to the body(pivot point) then install helper springs

Yes, changing the leverage points does make the stroke shorter.

the way all pull guitars do.

So these are different springs than the little buffer springs on the activator rods?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Sep 2002 10:46 am

Jim,
I put helper springs on the changer fingers. They attach to any convenient hole that's available on the finger. I removed the buffer springs, I don't like the 'sponginess' they cause. Now that the fingers have helper springs on them, I can reduce the leverage required to activate them, thus reducing pedal travel. This means that, even when employing a lower, there is very little extra travel in the pedal, making it comparable to an 'All pull'.
Richard.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Sep 2002 11:33 am

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 11 Sep 2002 12:55 pm

I guess I'm still not clear on this one...
Are you replacing the clip that attaches the pull-rod to the changer-finger with a spring?...
Or adding a spring to another existing hole on the finger?
If you are adding a spring to the finger, where does the other end of the spring attach to?
What keeps the open note from going sharp, and the lower from feeling stiff?
Any pix?
Thx,
Pete[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 11 September 2002 at 01:59 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Sep 2002 7:32 pm

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 11 Sep 2002 7:54 pm

Again...
What keeps the open note from going sharp, and the lower from feeling stiff?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 12 Sep 2002 11:20 am

Pete,
Why would the note go sharp? The helper spring only has enough tension to take the 'work' out of raising it. Obviously if the spring is too strong it will raise the string, so the tension of the spring must be found by trial and error. The spring is attached to a hole in the finger, not between the rod and the wire hook. I attached the other end of the springs to the cross strap, which was in a convenient position, luckily. Now to your last question: The lowers do not become stiffer, because the tension springs that hold the Lowering element of the fingers can be relaxed slightly. This is because the pressure exerted by the strings is less (by virtue of the raise helper springs), ergo less tension is required to hold the Lowering element in its correct position.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 12 Sep 2002 11:32 am

On some (better designed) steel guitars it is easy to adjust the tension of the helper springs. Zum is the only one I can think of offhand that allows it.

Dave Seddon · Post by **Dave Seddon** » 12 Sep 2002 2:59 pm

Thankyou Richard for your support, we'll get together sometime, and with a bit of luck we'll drag the BOSS over, you know "THE BOSS"
Mr SEYMOUR. Put some petrol in his plane he'll be over here like a shot. "ARE YOU LISTENING MR. HOGAN" WE WANT SEYMOUR.