half stop on second string lower issue

[Earnest Bovine]

You can make the half stop stiffer, but you may not like it because it may make the whole step change too stiff. For me it is usually better to practice using the weak half stop, and eventually it gets better.

[Danny Dees]

hi guys, thanks for all the tips. i've been working on my guitar the past day or so and i think i've got what i want.

i took a rod from my c6 neck as example and went to home depot. they had a rod like i needed and even threaded the end of the rod for me with a die set.

got home and measured the length i needed to reach that first pedal, cut the rod and used one of those brass roller things, a sleeve and a nilon hex nut from a c6 pull. put the pedal and pedal rod back on. ended up puttin the pull rod thru the 3rd hole on the pull lever and now that pedal lowers the second string a wholetone.

took the rod on that knee lever second string lower and put it in the first hole and retuned it and now it just lowers a halftone. seems to be working good and i dont mind having borrowed from my c6 neck because i dont play c6.

thanks again for all the great tips and i think i've got what i need to make sure i've got that new lick i'm learning licked.

[Clete Ritta]

...how to turn that pull into just a halftone pull instead of a whole and halftone?...

Turn the nylon hex on string 2 (edited) counter-clockwise so that the lever stops at D instead of C#. (Thanks Brint )

Clete

[Brint Hannay]

Clete, shouldn't that be counterclockwise?

[Clete Ritta]

Thanks Brint for the correction! I was thinking raise for some reason, but you're right, its counter-clockwise for a lower. Anyways, its a simple tuning adjustment to change the lower from C# to D instead.

Clete

[Donny Hinson]

It hard to hear exactly what's being done, but an excellent immitation of that move (using the 2nd string and string 5 while bouncing the A pedal) can be easily done by just slanting the nose of the bar backwards!

[Billy Carr]

I see DH just posted what I was thinking about using the bar. I have the Eb lowering to a D on the RKR which also lowers #6 G# to a G. I got the Eb to D from Seymour and the G# to G from Hughey, a long time ago. I don't care for stiff levers/pedals but hey, that makes us all a little different. Whatever works for a player, go for it! Ha!

[Tony Prior]

unless I read this wrong, you are lowering the 2nd string a half tone for the entire song ? Holding the knee lever for the entire song ?

Why not just tune the 2nd string down a half tone and NOT use the knee lever ? Kinda like a drop D on a guitar ?..

But adding the 1/2 tone hard stop is the answer, I added this to my Carter for the 2nd string half tone stop , to get to the full tone drop requires effort...

[Danny Dees]

hi tony. not for the entire song but just while playing a certain lick that i'm learning.

the lick i'm learning is at 1.25 in this version of cadillac style. http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/cadillac-style-th

i like that lick and its a real finger tickler for me but it requires holdin the second string a half step lowered while pressing and releasing the B and C pedals while picking the strings. my guitar didnt have a half stop and i was over shooting the D and pressing the knee lever somewhere between D and C#.

i have the issue fixed now and i'm enjoying working on that lick. still haven't got it near as quick like on that recording but having fun with it and its turning out to be a nice exercise for my fingers.

[Larry Bressington]

If you have enough lever room on the pull, you can stiffen the half stop by moving the rod on the bell crank, however that normally effects the 2ND string drop being in tune...I took my 9th string drop off, and went with an adjustable 'half stop' sho-bud barrel type. It was the best thing i ever did, and i have a nice positive and tight 'half feel' that's very accurate for the 2nd string, and i can snag it on the fly without over-run, even with new jeans on.

As far as the 9th drop, i do miss that sometimes, so i'll tend to pick strings 9/5/6 and slide down, then block 9 with the palm and quickly snag the 8th or 10th with the thumb. I really need that 2nd string to be accurate and positive because it get's used so much and the trade off is always a debate. There's a ton of great things with the 9th string and no need to drop it... b5's, 13th's, Maj7/9 etc... You can also do slants if you want to play on strings 9 and 5 together to make up for the loss.

[Richard Sinkler]

But adding the 1/2 tone hard stop is the answer, I added this to my Carter for the 2nd string half tone stop , to get to the full tone drop requires effort...

Tony, could you elaborate on this. I am not happy with the half stops (2 of them) on my Carter. I am trying to think of a way to put solid stops under the guitar like Sho~Bud had, and I see a unit on Michael Yahl's site for MSA's that look like what I want. I emailed him to see what I would need to do to use it on a Carter but never heard back from him.

[Larry Bressington]

Richard.....I think that is what you need, drill a couple of holes in the wood and mount, piece of cake...I emailed Micheal last week too but i had an immediate response twice, i'll bet he did not get your email for some reason, he's an 'On the ball guy' when it comes to communications.

[Lane Gray]

I don't recall Carter's bellcrank/rod attachment scheme. You might need to turn a crank around or use an alternate bellcrank, as the MSA/Sho-Bud stop requires a pushing rod (meaning it lives between cross-shaft and keyhead)

[Richard Sinkler]

The Carter just uses another pull rod on a bell crank that is hooked to a dedicated "11th finger" to add the resistance. Essentially the same setup as using the 9th string to create the half stop. Not that positive if you ask me. But the main issue is, I have my 2nd string lower on my RKL. That also lowers the 3rd string on my C neck. So, I have 2 resistance points and sometimes miss getting the right one for the half stop. I believe the one Michael sells will work, but I have to be able to have the bell crank with a square hole to mount on the square cross shaft that Carter uses. IF the little part that he uses in the bell crank is small enough (I think it needs to be 3/16" diameter to fit into Carter bell cranks), then I could just substitute the Carter bell crank for his with the round cross shaft hole. Of course, I have these little teflon or delrin inserts with a hole for a rod to go through that Carter used to put into bell cranks along the path of long pullrods to keep them from flopping around. That would work. But they are drilled for the size of rod Carter uses (3/32 I believe) and I think all of Michael's stuff is drilled for 1/8" rods. I don't know if the 1/32" difference would cause problems though. It appears the piece he has in the bell crank is only for aligning and supporting the rod. If his would work, I would buy 2 (I have a half stop on the C neck too that is really hard to hit), if I have room on the C neck under the guitar for it.

You might need to turn a crank around or use an alternate bellcrank, as the MSA/Sho-Bud stop requires a pushing rod (meaning it lives between cross-shaft and keyhead)

Since the bell crank pivots towards the keyhead end of the guitar, I could hook the rod to it, and have the unit between the bell crank and the keyhead end of the guitar, similar to how Michael has it photographed on his website.

Hey Michael, if you see this, I am creating another post with some ideas for you.