E9/B6th Universal Alternate Low String Tuning

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 9 Sep 2002 8:47 pm

I have a Sierra U12.

I was practicing tonight and looked down at the .068 12th string B, and realized I hadn't touched that string in weeks.

Its really too low and muddy to musically useful, so I was thinking about making 12 an E (what's now 11) and making 11 an F#, so it would be E-F#-G#-B-E-F#-G#-B-E-etc.

Note the repeating pattern.

I mainly play the E9 side, it would seem pretty logical from that perspective, and the pulls on pedals 5 and 8 could be tuned onto string 12, no pull rod changes required.

I would lose that B - G# drop (darn it, I use that a lot, ha!), but overall it looks good.

Any opinions?

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 9 Sep 2002 9:04 pm

Scott...
It should work. You can still use the same pedal setup with a few different pulls..Eg: 4th pedal also lowers the low E to Eb. BooWah pedal has the Boo, but no wah

Dennis

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 9 Sep 2002 9:15 pm

I lower my low B string to A on the A pedal, giving me a full 4 octave A6 chord with the pedals down. I find that low string very usefull not for chord work, but for single string melodic playing in the key of A. I use it at least once a night, usually on a song on which I use distortion, whenever I play out with my blues rock band.

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 10 Sep 2002 12:03 am

I have E on the bottom of my 12 F# on 11
Works out great for me

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Sep 2002 6:13 am

I guess it depends on how you feel about the standard C6 tuning. I use the bottom string on most every song I play. I also rely on the string grips and chord/pedal positions from C6 (B6) a lot. I have never inserted the F# string but I have removed the bottom B and inserted a C# (or D) string between the low B and E -- there's a hole there too. Didn't work for me -- I tried it for several months -- but a lot of folks are using this approach on both universal and C6 tunings. Buddy Emmons has an interesting setup on his Sierra S-12 C6 guitar. More info at http://www.buddyemmons.com .

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 10 September 2002 at 07:13 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Sep 2002 8:04 am

Why not put the 9th string D from the E9th back in? I'm sure it would be more useful than a low F#.

Another thought is to raise that low B to D. That way you still have the guitar player beat. The low D power chord position (D-A-D) has an awesome sound!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 10 Sep 2002 9:42 am

I tried a U-12 with the D note at the ninth string position for several years but it always got in the way of my B6th tuning on the strum chords. I found it more useful as a B and pulled to D with the same lever that pulls the 2nd string. The D would probably be ok for an extended E9th.
Dennis

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 Sep 2002 11:59 am

Hi Scott,

You mention you currently mainly play E9th.
On your Sierra you can convert it quickly to, or back to, whatever you want, so I wouldn't worry too much about the standard C6th(B6th) tuning for the moment.

I don't disagree with your above idea at all.
In fact, I would reccomend getting a bunch of extra rod and bell crank assemblys, and experiment away!

I agree that if strings 11 & 12 have no E9th changes hooked up, then they can easily become under-utilized for typical E9th stuff.

FWIW, as Mike mentions, I too use the string-12 B to A lower on pedal-A quite a bit (wouldn't want to give it up).

I have linked all my E9th changes to strings 11 and 12.

On string 11-E, I get F#, F, E, Eb, (and sometimes D, depending on the experiment of the day) on the same pedal/lever locations as strings 4 and/or 8.

String 12-B, gets C#, C, B, Bb, A, G# (and also sometimes raise to D... depending on the experiment of the day

) on the same pedal/lever locations as strings 5 and 9.

Open tuning from top to bottom:
D#, G#, F#, E, B, G#, F#, E, B, G#, E, B.
(note repeating pattern starting at high G#).

Great thread!

Have fun and let us know what you come up with!
Pete B

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 10 Sep 2002 8:47 pm

I strung it up tonight and I liked it!

The same fret major scale, 3rds harmonized and 6ths harmonized now go all the way down to the low E (12) with the same grips for the lower octave as above. Cool.

The repeating string pattern makes some sense.

I now see why Pete has his laid out as discussed above.

Isn't there a thing called a keyboard where they use this concept of repeating patterns for different octaves?

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 Sep 2002 9:04 pm

Just curious Scott,
Did you continue your pattern on up with strings 3=F#, 2=G#, 1=??

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 11 Sep 2002 6:30 am

Not yet, but I am starting to see your logic in your system.

I need to order some parts to add/move changes on the low end. Then I can internalize the low octave, at then it will probably make sense to change the upper octave to the same pattern.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 11 Sep 2002 8:49 am

Pete-That D# on the outside and the F# in between the G# and E is a great way to go, especially if you do a lot of B6 work. This way you have like a C6 with high G and high A. All laid out for good picking....al

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 11 Sep 2002 11:54 am

That's right Al!

And since we've all been navigating strings 6-G#, 7-F#, 8-E, in this order on E9th with no problem since day one, why should we have to learn it differently for E9th on the upper octave?!

This is how all S12U's should be, IMHO.
I think it would make learning E9/B6 steel so much easier and logical.
Those Bb6th guys were on the right track!