Which All-pull sounds closest to a Push-Pull

Dag Wolf · Post by **Dag Wolf** » 23 Aug 2002 12:08 am

I know there`s a lot of friendly opinions out there but I would like to know from those you who has really done a A-B comparing.

Which allpull did you think sounded closest?

Thanks, Dag

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 23 Aug 2002 12:28 am

Just my own opinion, but I think the LeGrands come closest,,,,,, if you're just judging the guitars by themselves. A lot of other factors can and do come into the picture. Mostly the player with pick ups and other gear having some final affect on the outcome.
Bottom line really is, if you like and want the sound of an Emmons push pull, then you probably should play one.
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Aug 2002 3:20 pm

I honestly think that some of Herby Wallace's stuff (on his Zum) sounds awfully close to that p/p Emmons sound.

(Dag, I took some comments I originally had here, and put them in a new topic titled "Tone schmone...")[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 23 August 2002 at 05:00 PM.]

Larry Harlan · Post by **Larry Harlan** » 23 Aug 2002 3:35 pm

Well said, Mr. Hinson.
To borrow from Nike Shoes: JUST DO IT!

Bruce Hamilton · Post by **Bruce Hamilton** » 23 Aug 2002 4:31 pm

Around the late eigthies a friend of mine became the owner of Sonny Garrish's JCH which had counterfit 705's on it and was used on countless hits during this period. He asked me to set it up to his specs and while I had it I started to A&B it with my push pull which had the factory single coils at 19500ohms. What I found was that I could not tell them apart. I had been away from the all pull guitar market for quite awhile and at that point I assumed all guitars basically had the same sound. In the late nineties I decided I would get an all pull guitar and was I in for a surprise. I was lucky enough to A&B the following guitars for an extensive period of time- Several Zums, a Franklin, several Carters,and a Legrande 111. I found they all sounded great but were missing that huge midrange that is characteristic of the push pull.
Since then I was lucky enough to get the pickups off Sonny's old JCH. I haven't installed them on the JCH I purchased last year yet as I don't see the point of having two guitars that sound the same. I spent many long hours A&Bing these guitars and that is the way it sounded to me. Your mileage may vary.

Jim Palmer · Post by **Jim Palmer** » 23 Aug 2002 5:01 pm

A Dekley will do the trick,every time....

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 23 Aug 2002 5:29 pm

My vote is for the EMCI.
I've never heard Herby Wallace play a ZumSteel, but the Mullen guitars I've heard him play for the last ten years or so have been somewhat reminiscent of a push-pull, but the midrange isn't the same. LeGrandes are pretty close, but not quite there. I love the sound of my Fessy and I think it has similarities to the push-pull, but is also similar to a ZB -- I consider that a great combination.

1. EMCI
2. Emmons LeGrande
3. most of the rest

Just my opinion.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 23 Aug 2002 5:36 pm

Derby.

Frank Carter · Post by **Frank Carter** » 23 Aug 2002 8:35 pm

I have a EMCI and a MCI. With E-66 pu, they sound as close to a pp as anything I've played.

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 24 Aug 2002 4:49 am

Depends whose hands are on the strings...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 24 Aug 2002 6:16 am

people named chris are always the wisest!

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 24 Aug 2002 9:04 am

Alot of guys that I've spoken to also
say EMCI with E66's. Mike Cass included.
I've never tried one, but when a used one comes along, they usually fetch a pretty
good price! I guess their knee levers
were a bit on the flimsy side from what
I've heard.

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<a href=http://members.localnet.com/~jsganz/Steelin'.mpg>Push/Pull Video Clip</a>

Derek Duplessie · Post by **Derek Duplessie** » 24 Aug 2002 9:43 am

Kevin ryan told me last night that jay dee is
playing an EMCI now (and he LOVES it!)What
does that tell you? -Derek

Tim Hurst · Post by **Tim Hurst** » 24 Aug 2002 11:12 am

I believe the all pull with the sound closest to a push-pull is one that Buddy sits down and plays.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 24 Aug 2002 4:00 pm

About 3 years ago I thought I wanted an all-pull guitar. I sold one of the best sounding p/p's I ever had and bought a Derby. Big mistake, no tone at all. I traded it for another p/p after only 6 months and have went through about 5 or 6 guitars since then. So now I'm back to the p/p (66 Emmons) and picked up a Sho-Bud along the way. The Emmons is to die for and the Bud with a new pick-up will be right in there and plays exceptional with zero cabinet drop. I always thought the Emmons sound kind of derived from the old Sho-Buds. Listen to Buddy doing Nightlife. That was a Sho-Bud and it sounded great. I plan to give the Carter guitars a good long look at the ISGC because of the BCT changer system. If the changer fingers on the p/p's are the reason for their tone then the BCT systems may be close as it's designed to do the same thing.[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 24 August 2002 at 05:16 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 24 Aug 2002 4:40 pm

I sold one of the best sounding p/p's I ever had and bought a Derby. Big mistake, no tone at all.

Frank, with all due respect, I think perhaps a fairer way to state this is that "I could get no tone at all from it." After all, many of us have heard Tommy White, Terry Crisp, and other players get wonderful tone from their Derbys (Derbies?) I think this really comes down to what guitar is the best fit for the way a particular person plays. I, for instance, have both a Fessenden and a Zum. I think the Fessy responds just a little better to the way I happen to play, how I attack the strings, how I like to milk a note, etc, etc. But, Lord knows, few of us would claim that the Zum has "no tone at all." It's just not the best fit in my hands. (Guys, that does not mean the Zum is for sale; sorry!

)

Oh, by the way, getting back to the original question, I'd say the sound of the Fessy comes very close to the sound of a p/p... at least in my hands! Anyway, I've been told it's at least "acceptable".
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The "Master of Acceptable Tone"
www.jimcohen.com

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 24 August 2002 at 05:42 PM.]

John Lazarus · Post by **John Lazarus** » 24 Aug 2002 4:49 pm

One word-EMCI. Best kept secret in the steel guitar world.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 24 Aug 2002 8:14 pm

EMCI As the Big E once said, "The EMCI was the best all pull guitar on the market". When Buddy and George were working on a pick up that would sound like his 66 Emmons"The Blade",I had a new EMCI on order. Buddy got the first two pick ups, and i ask him if he would wind two more and ship them to Arlington for my new guitar. They did and I was amazed at the tonal quality. I still have the guitar, 8 and 6 and it is in mint condition. Jody.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 25 Aug 2002 5:42 am

Tim Hurst...yep!

& for my money & needs, the EMCI does seem to have that same "plumey" tone thats remniscent of a p/p. Unless Im mistaken, JD's new horn is an 80's Arlington MCI RX5000, if its the same one he got from me...and identical to an EMCI in all ways.
I did play on a few Emmons LeGrandeIII's @ SGN a while back (not to mention Dave Robbins' EIII)
that were very close to the p/p sound. I believe the ones @ SGN were newer ones built by Ron Jr's new company.
If anyone could make a guitar that sounds like a p/p, I guess it figures that it would be the Emmons Co.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 25 Aug 2002 6:14 am

What car gives me the feel of a Mercedes?
Make your choice:
a. Chevy
b. Caddilac
c. Lexus
d. BMW
e. Pontiac
f. Mercedes

Hard to make the choice???

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 25 Aug 2002 8:23 am

Well guys, It's seems to boil down to the "EARS THAT ARE HEARING IT" huh??

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"Let's go STEEL something"
If it feels good, do it. If it feels COUNTRY, do it twice
jpp

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 25 Aug 2002 9:12 am

Good point Johan.Everything else is just an imitator.But do we really want to drive a Mercedes all the time?A BMW might be a nice change from time to time.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 25 Aug 2002 10:05 am

I honestly think that some of Herby Wallace's stuff (on his Zum) sounds awfully close to that p/p Emmons sound.

I thought Herby played a Mullen.

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 25 Aug 2002 12:31 pm

A BMW might be a nice change from time to time.

For those who can afford it...

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 25 Aug 2002 4:33 pm

b0b
Since the late 70's Herby has played an Emmons,Zum, Emmons LeGrande,Sierra,Emmons LeGrande and Mullen

in that order I think.As most of you know.He now plays his own series HWP Mullen.A great sounding an playing guitar. [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 25 August 2002 at 08:42 PM.]