Some of 'us' are wondering...........

[Ray Montee]

Of the frequent SGF posters.....

that routinely enter into lengthy, detailed technical musical discussions.........here on the FORUM......

like those that know all of the physical measurements and electronic specifications of virtually every guitar ever marketed.......

can the majority of them even play the steel guitar?

This is a question that has been raised and discussed in various conversations from coast to coast. Just wondering, of course.

[Dave Mudgett]

Of the frequent SGF posters.....

that routinely enter into lengthy, detailed technical musical discussions.........here on the FORUM......

like those that know all of the physical measurements and electronic specifications of virtually every guitar ever marketed.......

can the majority of them even play the steel guitar?

This is a question that has been raised and discussed in various conversations from coast to coast. Just wondering, of course.

If you're referring, for example, to threads like this one - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=229489 -

I think you'll find that most of the posters there play steel guitar. I think SGF members, coast-to-coast, have a wide range of musical/technical backgrounds, as well as opinions about the value of technical discussions about instruments, but I don't think your innuendo is correct.

Even more to the point, I don't think your innuendo is even relevant. For example, do you think it is required for a steel guitar builder (or the builder of any instrument, for that matter) to be a serious player of that instrument? If so, I think that would leave out a lot of great instrument builders. Some instrument builders are fine players indeed, and others are not - I think there are several obvious counterexamples. Similarly, I don't think it's necessary to be a great player to be able to add useful technical information about instruments.

from dictionary.reference.com:
innuendo
in·nu·en·do [in-yoo-en-doh]
noun, plural in·nu·en·dos, in·nu·en·does.
1. an indirect intimation about a person or thing, especially of a disparaging or a derogatory nature.
2.Law.
a. a parenthetic explanation or specification in a pleading.
b. (in an action for slander or libel) the explanation and elucidation of the words alleged to be defamatory.
c. the word or expression thus explained.
Origin:
1555–65; < Latin: a hint, literally, by signaling, ablative of innuendum, gerund of innuere to signal, equivalent to in- in-2 + nuere to nod

Synonyms
1. insinuation, imputation.

[Ray Montee]

Your view is appreciated......
Many thanks, to you.

[Shaffer Smith]

I can tell you, as a newbie it's overwhelming. Especially when my major source of information and education comes from this forum.

[Jerome Hawkes]

i would imagine so...but
an interesting event took place last week where i was invited to play golf with some "hard core" golfers i know who play every week, talk golf 24/7, attend tournaments, know all the players, take golf vacations, have all the latest clubs and equipment, look like pros.
i play maybe 6 times a year on 15 year old pawn shop (Titleist) old school clubs.
i shot 8 strokes over all of them - they were awful relative to the amount of "knowledge" they yap constantly about. they spent more time in the woods looking for shanked balls than on the fairway.

[Pete Burak]

Ray, With regard to that thread, I admit it's been frustrating to me to hear all the technical descriptions and see all the charts only to find that Ed won't post a video beacause he doesn't play.
No offense intended.

[Cliff Kane]

You can still learn a lot from the info, and perhaps in some ways it's objective in a way that less empirically supported info from players is. I know that the physics of what's happening can be useful for design, but then again scientific measurement may miss what a player can feel and hear from the sum of the parts, like why some people are devoted to the Emmons push-pull or the Fender Telecaster.
I have heard that Leo Fender didn't play, but somehow he designed guitars and amps that sound and play fantastic, and his designs seem so simple and practical. I have also heard that Leo Fender used great players as proxies for own limited musicianship to help him dial in his designs. Perhaps the scientist and artist team is a good thing, and maybe there's a potential for that in some of these discussions. It surely would be interesting to hear what Leo Fender had to say about guitars. Did Leo Fender design the Fender 400 cable guitar? Nothing else really sounds like those guitars, but I don't know if you can measure the magic of that sound on a scope.

[Christopher Woitach]

I enter into lengthy musical discussions sometimes. I have since I first joined the forum, one week after I bought my first steel guitar, so I certainly couldn't play steel at all. On the other hand, I've been a professional musician for 30 years or so, and have taught jazz guitar at a local university for 12 years, so in fact I'm extremely qualified to discuss technical musical questions, regardless of my steel ability. I wouldn't, however, consider for a moment telling anyone how play steel guitar.

The beauty (and frustration) of the forum is that "we" can write about whatever the heck we please if we follow the forum rules - melodic minor substitutions, new copedents, best way to tune a push- pull, Jerry Garcia, tuning, Jerry Byrd, you name it - it's up to the reader to decide whether or not the information is important or relevant.

[Wayne Franco]

I know Ed. He is a very nice and sincere guy. I do think he has played steel guitar. But I know he is familiar with the instrument. How many players of the steel have a lot of time or have the background to do some of these technical studies. I sure don't. I appreciate any and all people who have an interest in the steel guitar whether they play or not. If we did't have these folks we could base our decisians on less information. At least they give some solid scientific information that we can embrace or not. That kind of interest isn't something you could pay someone to get and I don't know of anyone that would be willing to pay these people money any time soon for their research either. Do people bitch even if they hang um with a new rope?

[Dick Sexton]

There is not a doubt in my mind that if a proficiency test of sorts were required to post on this forum, I'd be out. Not be allowed to ever post again. I would, however, still lurk. The knowledge base and contributions of the membership on this forum is unbelievable. And only a portion of it has to do directly with playing the instrument. Some of US? It might called it the USuns test. You USuns could judge everyone that wants to contribute to the forum, and if they don't measure up, could shoot them down, not allowing even the first post.

I couldn't pass a test, but I did play back to back gigs yesterday and will play a 4 hour show tomorrow night. So... Judge on all you Usuns!

And yes, I am offended by your post!

[Ray Montee]

I'm sorry some of you are offended by it. That was not my intent........to offend anyone!

I'm simply interested in raising the depth of our international posts....to a level where nearly everyone can benefit.

When Mr. Emmons and Lloyd Green and countless others of similar talents were actively paricipating in the SGF.....the level of content was at a high point.

Since they seldom participate any more.....the same topics seem to repeat themselves not only day after
day, but on occasion, immediately following a topic of the same title.

Controversy often generates informative communication.

[Bud Angelotti]

those that know all of the physical measurements and electronic specifications of virtually every guitar ever marketed....... can the majority of them even play the steel guitar?

May i attempt to answer that quetion by asking a question.
How many of the scientists, tecnicians, and support personel, that devleoped the Saturn 5 rocket, which put a man on the moon, actually flew one?

[Ray Minich]

I find Ed's information to be spot on. The analytic equipment and software that is available today is outstanding. I am probably in the minority in saying that I truely enjoy reading the material. Testing, analysis, design, instrumentation, sensors, data acquisition is what I do for a living.

Yes the information is very worthwhile.

How many of the scientists, tecnicians, and support personel, that devleoped the Saturn 5 rocket, which put a man on the moon, actually flew one?

Bud, there is a great book from NASA about "Problem Solving during the NASA Era". Believe it or not, rocket science really is trial and error.

The story about the first designs for a moon shot worthy command module that could also withstand impacting the ocean on splashdown is hilarious reading. The first test command module cracked like an egg in the drop test. Back to the drawing board they went.

Who knows what tidbit of information may lead to the next innovation; in spaceflight vehicles or pedal steel guitars.

[Mike Neer]

Adolph Rickenbacher didn't play steel or any instrument, for that matter. As a matter of fact, Bigsby didn't play steel either, but only played bass.

[Bud Angelotti]

Thanks Ray Minich! You have helped me realize the errors in my ways!:)
I can feel myself slipping back into comedy mode. Too much time on my hands.

[Jim Cohen]

Paul Franklin Sr. does not play steel guitar either.

When Mr. Emmons and Lloyd Green and countless others of similar talents were actively participating in the SGF.....Since they seldom participate any more.....the same topics seem to repeat themselves not only day after day, but on occasion, immediately following a topic of the same title

Oh, the same things happened back then too, it's just that you didn't notice as much, probably because you were (understandably) more interested in other threads.

[Gary Lee Gimble]

oh my, the DOW has been hovering over 13K for over an hour now. I can feel collateral vibs as I plucked string #10 on the back neck. I can't say much for my pickin expertise, but my oh my, those vibs are something...isnt that something? gonna make a chart too

[Alan Tanner]

Ha ha Ray...great poke.I played steel guitar a long time back. Better than 30 years. Messed with it for about 4 years. Grew tired of it and was much more successful getting work as a guitarist. Not a great picker either, but I have learned to "fake" my way thru most stuff. More importantly, I learned when NOT to play. I still love the sound of a good steel guitar, especially good C6 work. I enjoy working with good steel pickers, and support them any way I can. I also steel (ha) their licks whenever possible. Every now and then I come close to buying another steel guitar, but then come to my senses. 55 years of playing guitar and music has filled my house with crap that I rarely use. So...I guess that makes me a has been used to play but don't now and prolly wont. I like the forum for it's info, stuff for sale, announcements, and often completely ridiculous entertainment value. FYI, I also belong to a "brand name" motorcycle forum. It's exactly the same...lots of guys posting info that they picked up somewhere else or are guessing at, never rode a bike,let alone own that brand. And other who contribute extremely good info, and will step up to help anyone anywhere in the country if they can. I believe this forum is the same....ya jes gotta take it all in and boil down what ya wanna keep........which I agree...some days taint much, but other days it's a home run....AL
BTW..insulting...you will have to do a LOT better than that to get my goat bbbbaaaaahhhhing....lol

[Mike Perlowin]

Ed doesn't play. So what? his thing is all the technical analysis he does. He enjoys doing it, and some of our members enjoy reading the results of his labors. Where is the harm?

[Bo Legg]

When you’re playing your Steel Guitar at a convention, jam, gig, church or recording studio your ability is the most important factor .
When you’re communicating on the Forum your knowledge is the most important factor.
It is possible to have a great deal of knowledge about Steel guitar without having a great deal of ability and vice versa.
I know great musicians who are very poor communicators.
I think the real problem is when you post a very simple and interesting idea, some folks just can’t leave it simple and post boring charts, stats and long technical mumbo jumbo rants.
It’s like cooking a great steak and before you can even get it off the grill some guy is right there with his briefcase full of charts lecturing you on healthful eating.

[Stuart Legg]

Be honest, all those steel guitars built by non-players were very low tech and only prove that steel guitars live longer than builders.

[Bud Angelotti]

Oh Please. If you don't like the man's charts & graphs, just don't look at 'em.

[Bo Legg]

I don't!

[Ron Page]

Oh come on guys! Do you think Abby had direct life experiences for all of the advice she gave over the years. You know we're all here trying to avoid those expensive sessions on the psychiatrist’s couch.