Fender Dual Pro just arrived.

Tyler George · Post by **Tyler George** » 13 Jun 2012 3:08 pm

So my lap steel just arrived. I don't know the exact year yet, but am told I can check under the tuning pans. I don't plan on changing the strings yet because I might need the pickups, or at least one, rewound, so I don't want to waste a set of strings. Also, everything with the tuners/tuning pans seems to be in excellent condition, but I'll clean them up anyway. Early to mid 50's is my guess. Trapazoid pickups, tweed case, and a small leather bag with JR engraved... Does anyone know who that might be? Hopefully I can get pics to work.

:]

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 13 Jun 2012 7:30 pm

Tyler,

Is there a reason you think a pickup needs rewound? If the seller said so, that may be more true, but if they are just of different ohms readings, maybe not.

For instance: I just bought a steel with two necks. The neck towards the crowd is a single 4.5k pickup. The back neck has 2-5.5k pickups. I put E-13 on the front neck and A-6 an the back. The A-6 is muddy and dark, and the E-13 is thin and bright. From looking at old steel tunings I think it may have been popular to put the E neck on the back, and the A (or C) neck on the front in the past. So the stronger pickup would be for the thinner strings of an E-13 tuning, or similar tuning. So the weaker pickup is on the A neck, which has thicker strings and more output. They would balance better this way?

I might be out of my mind on this, but it seems possible! I'll be changing my strings soon...and flipping the neck's tunings.

Old steel pickups can have lower ohm readings, and old amps like it that way, so don't be too critical of that aspect. Lee Jeffriess said his guitar is reading 3.5k on each pickup, and 1.2 with the selector in the middle position! Check out his tone before you change anything!!! A typical modern pedal guitar is 17-18k ohms.

Just some thoughts.

Oh yeah...that's a NICE looking guitar!

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 13 Jun 2012 8:00 pm

I think on Dual Pros that serial numbers are to an extent sequential. I have an 8-54 that is #289x. It has the tweed case with leather ends. Your lighter tweed case suggests earlier in the '50s. Just guessing--but does it have a deep blue lining? Second guess: light dusty pink?

Tyler George · Post by **Tyler George** » 14 Jun 2012 5:17 am

Rick Abbott wrote:Tyler,

Is there a reason you think a pickup needs rewound? If the seller said so, that may be more true, but if they are just of different ohms readings, maybe not.

The back pickup is the stronger one, and it sounds amazing even with the amp at low volumes. The front pickups sounds weak and thin. It picks up way more noise from the bar sliding than the other, and the difference between the two pickups is too noticable to switch them without having to readjust the amp. I'm going to talk to two different people on Friday to see what hey say and see if they can help me out. I guess it's worth it to ask, does someone know somebody who rewinds these frequently? I know some people just wont, but I'd like it to be done by someone who has a lot of experience with it. I have someone in mind, but if there are others it'd be nice to know.

On a side note, I feel so slow playing this thing! I'm used to being able to pick up other string instruments and figure out where most chords/inversions are, but this steel thing... A slide? Huh? It's almost frustrating, but that just means that I won't stop playing until I feel better at it.

Tyler George · Post by **Tyler George** » 14 Jun 2012 5:24 am

Ben Elder wrote:I think on Dual Pros that serial numbers are to an extent sequential. I have an 8-54 that is #289x. It has the tweed case with leather ends. Your lighter tweed case suggests earlier in the '50s. Just guessing--but does it have a deep blue lining? Second guess: light dusty pink?

It's not blue, and it's probably the light dusty pink you're talking about, but it's hard to put a name on the color. I'll take the tuning pans out once I either change string or get the pickup rewound to see if the dates penciled in there.

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 14 Jun 2012 5:48 am

Sounds like rewind time to me. Rick Aiello?

If you are certain of the two tunings you want to start with, it's time to get out a notepad and pencil. It's very helpful to just sit around and think about spelling chords. I had one of the chord dictionaries that spells the chords out under the diagram. So, looking at an e-13 chord is very interesting. There are major and minor chords, as well as partial chords all on one fret. Put your head into this sort of space, along with just sounding out where things are. I also have made charts with all the whole notes labled; just look at it when you need to spell a chord your not already familiar with. Scale tones make chords, all the scales are just laying there too...hahaha!

Playing in tune is the most important task at hand anyway.

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 15 Jun 2012 5:48 am

I agree that sending both pickups to Rick Aiello is the way to go. Even the strongest one most likely will show a great improvement when Rick re-magnetizes the magnets as he did on mine.
According to Rick the process that the Fender factory used to magnetize the magnets on the trapezoid pickups often didn't bring them up to the strength on the gauze meter that was most desirable.
Both coils on mine were checking right at 10.0 ohms, so they didn't need rewound. It was the magnets that were weak from being in the guitar since 1953. So I only sent the magnets out mine to Rick. He says mine are now good for another 40 years, and my pickups are very strong.
At Ricks suggestion I did put a little silicone sealer in the bobbin housings when re-assembling them so the bobbins now sit firmly and that stopped some buzzing I originally had which was caused by the bobbin material (forbon) slightly shrinking over the years. I am well pleased now with mine.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 16 Jun 2012 11:59 am

I sent my pickups (mounting plates and all) to Lollar and had them completely rebuilt/remagnitized. It was pricey but worth every penny! Now the pickups will last another 50 yrs...

Tyler George · Post by **Tyler George** » 16 Jun 2012 1:23 pm

I emailed Rick yesterday, and will most likely be sending my pickups to him this week. I just need to make sure that it's not the wiring/pots that are causing some of the problems. I also looked under the tuning pans the other day, and it's dated 11/29/51. So it's from 1951, and it's in great condition for being that old.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 16 Jun 2012 4:07 pm

I'm having a trap rewound by Larry at Aero Instrument in Hawaii (he was recommended on another thread here.)I've heard from many sources that DC resistance on the original traps was in the neighborhood of 10.8k.

With one trap sounding good and the other sounding weak you can try swapping the magnets to see if that makes a difference. (On my Dual Pro you can remove the magnets without completely removing the strings- I use blue masking tape to keep everything from getting all tangled up.If the nuts holding the pickups to the plate are rusted and difficult to turn- do not proceed!)

As for tunings I'd suggest that the two necks be compatible since you can play both at the same time- as was often done in the old days. I'm going with E13[B-G#] and A6[F#-E] on mine to get a good mix of high and low notes.

I look at tunings more intuitively than scientifically, looking for the notes that feel right under my fingers. But it is nice to have a good selection of intervals available to you in straight bar positions.

Steve Ahola

Nate Hofer · Post by **Nate Hofer** » 16 Jun 2012 9:08 pm

Tyler, congrats! You're gonna have so much fun with that thing. Sounds like you're getting a great start.

Joel Cangiolosi · Post by **Joel Cangiolosi** » 16 Jun 2012 9:56 pm

That thing looks sweet!!! I have a 48 dual pro tuned to B11 and an open e with some variations for playing some bluesy stuff. I chose the B11 after watching the smooth playing of Anthony (Tony) Locke. Here's a refernce video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zLYfhyIfKI