Emmons Counterforce

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 12 Jul 2002 8:15 am

I'm curious about this. What exactly is it doing? Does it interfere at all with the action? Does it eliminate the need for compensators?

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Earl Foote · Post by **Earl Foote** » 12 Jul 2002 9:01 am

Steve,

The counterforce mechanism is a lever that pushes the changer axel toward the right which counteracts the cabinet drop. The lever is pulled by a common rod which is connected to the A,B,& C pedals. Each pedal is independantly adjustable. If you are ever in Houston, give me a holler and you are welcome to come by check my LGIII out. I'm not doing much with it since I got my push pull(Haven't even taken it out of the case as a matter of fact). As to weather it is noticable or not, that is up to the individual. I've heard people say that the extra force required bothers them. The force required is very small due to the 10:1 (I think) mechanical advantage that the lever has. If you look at one of these up close, you'll imediately see how it works.

Hope this helps
Earl

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 12 Jul 2002 9:06 am

Steve you will still need the lower return compensators.The counter force does nothing to relieve that problem.Not supposed to.---bb

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 13 Jul 2002 6:50 am

"I'm not doing much with it since I got my push pull". There's something you don't hear everyday.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 13 Jul 2002 1:29 pm

I never knew what cabinet drop was until sombody told me. The old p/p I was playing then never had any drop I could tell even on the tuner. The ones I have now is nearly nothing at all. I've recently got an old Sho-Bud from the late 60's or early 70's with the round body style and there is no cabinet drop at all. I had a Derby that had a lot of drop and the Legrande II had some drop to it. The newer guitars had the drop but the older ones don't.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 14 Jul 2002 8:11 pm

Frank:
Where have I heard of you? Are you a Steel player? NR

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 16 Jul 2002 9:08 pm

Yes Nick,Frank IS a steel player,& a pretty good one,I might add.

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Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 24 Jul 2002 9:29 pm

I doubt a pedal steel has been built that has NO cabinet drop.

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 25 Jul 2002 2:55 pm

The only guitar you can play with no cab drop is a Lashley III. Anyone care to contest this can see me anytime at Steel Guitar Nashville...bring your guitar and let's have a look.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 25 Jul 2002 4:18 pm

OK, Jeff, no cabinet drop. What about cabinet raise? I really want to know.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 25 Jul 2002 5:05 pm

Can't tell if Jeff wants to pick or fight.

Reggie no drop but yes they do have a little cabinet raise.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 4 Aug 2002 12:46 pm

My Anapeg has NO cabinet drop- and no counter force mechanism either. However- I will not take it to Nashville to prove the point. Jeff- you are welcome to visit and stay with me in Oceanside anytime your're near-- Jim

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 4 Aug 2002 5:02 pm

No cabnet drop on the push pull. It automatically compensates for it. This is where Ron Sr. got the idea to fix the LeGrande "drop". The raise finger , when it gets to the body, piviots at that point and pushes the finger axel back, doing the same thing as the LeGrande III only with out all the monkey motion. Any push-pull with cabnet drop can be adjusted to eliminate it easly. But most just don't do it because of the automatic compensation of the finger pivioting at the body point of contact. Just another great advantage of this wonderful , much mis-understood changer.
What about the needed seventh string lowering to be in tune when you push on your "A" and "B" pedals? Cabnet drop helps here. LeGrande III? Save your money and buy the Legrand II, Save $277.00 and be just as much in tune , over all. Or buy a push pull and be in tune everywhere, all the time!
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 04 August 2002 at 06:04 PM.]

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 5 Aug 2002 6:33 am

I agree with most everything that my old friend Bobbe said. The only time cabinet drop bothers me is when I'm alone and trying to tune the beats out. My old lacquered finish LeGrande II drops about 5 cents on the 4th. string, and of course the 6th. string is worse. There is no possible way to get in really good tune. I don't hear it on the job because there is always other players that are not in great tune either, so I compensate and do the best I can. After years of playing, one gets pretty good at compensating. But,,, if it were not so expensive, I would have the old guitar retro-fitted with the counter-force system in a heartbeat! The LeGrande III is the way to go. If adjusted properly, it works perfectly and adds no real noticable stiffness to the pedal action. Yes, you may want lower-return compensators on your LeGrande series guitar, but that's a differn't issue. D.D.[This message was edited by Duane Dunard on 05 August 2002 at 07:37 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 5 Aug 2002 11:30 am

Duane, you say the only time tuning bothers you is when you are playing alone? Why are you doing that alone? There are some things that one shouldn't do alone!!!!!!
Drizzel J. Fritzenheimerr