Western Swing Tuning Question

[Rick Abbott]

I really like the sounds of Old Country and Western Swing. I found the thread where Lee Jeffriess showed his copedant on his Wright/Sierra D-8. So, as he used to play E-13 and A6, he now uses F-13 and Bb6 with some pedal changes. The notes are still relative in position, just 1/2 step higher.

My question is: What is the reason to raise the tuning 1/2 step? String tension?

[Brad Bechtel]

My guess would be that someone is doing a lot of singing in keys that match those tunings, but I'm sure Lee will be along to answer your question.

[Russ Wever]

when working with instruments that aren't 'concert c'
(reeds are often in Bb or Eb clefts, etc) your fretboard
visuals will be more 'user friendly'
in the (flat) keys they often play in.
~russ

[Ian]

I thought this was "Steel Without Pedals".

[Rick Abbott]

It is Steel Without Pedals, and I mention the pedal changes...Lee uses them as chord changers. If you hear his playing you won't hear the pedals like you do in Country playing. He is into Speedy West and Vance Terry etc. They all used pedals some, but not in the "modern" sense.

[Morgan Scoggins]

Russ is quite right with his reply. I use the A6 tuning for Western Swing and it sets up good visualy for the keys of C, D, E, G and A.
Horn players love to play in flat keys like A flat, E flat, F and B flat( don't ask me why) By raising the tuning from A6 to Bb6, it would put all those "flat keys" at a position on the fretbaord that left me in a comfort zone and not disoriented.

[Rick Abbott]

So, it stands to reason that songs done by big swing bands, back in the day, would have had horns...so steelers might just as well make it easier for themselves? And, now even though The West Coast Ramblers are a 5-piece without horns, the songs they cover are from the big-band era and in flat keys. Or not? I'm going to go see what keys they are in on the songs on their website. I'll be back...

[Mike Neer]

I will ask Lee why he tunes to F and Bb.

[Stephen Cowell]

My guess is... it sounds better. You push the tension one fret, it will sing harder, with the same gauge strings on it.

[Lee Jeffriess]

Rick, I changed up a half step because A6 sounded muddy in certain rooms.
I found that taking it up Bb stopped that.
Naturally the 13 followed suite, I like having the tunings a 5th apart.
It makes hopping necks more easy and the two tunings are in the same register.
I agree with Billy Tonnensen's advice about looking at it as one big tuning.
It works for me, its funny when I sit down at a guitar thats tuned C6 it sounds to high pitched, but someone else plays it and its sweet ?
Lee

[Steve Ahola]

Horn players love to play in flat keys like A flat, E flat, F and B flat( don't ask me why)

Tenor and soprano saxophones are in Bb, alto and baritone saxes are in Eb. What that means is that when they play the "white keys" they are in the key of Bb or Eb. (Of course their keys are not white like a piano- I just think that is a good way to explain it.)

Steve Ahola

[Morgan Scoggins]

Thanks for the explination Steve. That is something that I have always wondered about.
Years ago, I was learning to play bass lines by playing along with records. I got hold of an Ace Cannon record with several popular songs that I liked . I found that nearly all the songs were in keys like E flat, F and A flat.It really helped me though.I had never learned to play "Blue Eyes Cryin' In The Rain" in e flat until I got Ace's recording.

[Rick Abbott]

Thanks Lee, and everyone! I'm going to set up a D-8 today and I think I'll start with the E13 and A6. I play some steel in a blues/rock band on my U12. The E and A will keep things relative to that.

My real aspiration is swing and what I hear is The Fly Rite Boys!

[Jon A. Ross]

I believe the original keys for a lot of Chuck Berry's songs were Eb and Bb due to his piano player's (Johnny Johnson). Any piano man who comes up playing with horns will prefer the flat keys. For whatever reason, I find I prefer them on piano, too. I cannot play worth a crap in C!