Advice wanted: To use a cheater sheet or not...

James Zurek · Post by **James Zurek** » 4 Jul 2002 12:16 am

Is it a good idea to place some sort of tape or paper, next to the fretboard, listing the various notes? Sort of the equivalent of the bass player who puts stickers on their fretboard to represent places they should put their fingers to sound the correct note. I thought this might be a nice way to quickly reference what chord is at each given fret, including those for the pedals. Perhaps, facilitating the learning of the chord locations up and down the neck. What is the teaching philosophy on this sort of thing…that is, if anyone even knows what I am trying to describe……

James

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Jul 2002 1:42 am

James I would say that if you are a beginner fret markers would be ok for the short term. I would work very hard to fully understand , not memorize, understand
( there is a difference) the theory of the fret board and your Instrument. Markers can become a crutch, no, will become a crutch and will in my opinion prevent you from advancing. I would ask the Bass player what would happen if the fret markers fell off during a song ?

There are many excellent teaching courses out there, I would pick one and run with it, I would refrain from getting several at the same time . Pick one, finish it, then move to another . It's a great Instrument, well designed with basic theory in mind which once you understand the basic principles you will be well on your way. This is the part that prevents most new players from staying with the Instrument. How about a local teacher or player to help out, this would be highly recommended as well.Local may also mean 2 or 3 towns away with this Instrument.
good luck
tp

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 4 Jul 2002 4:29 am

James, as a teacher I can say do it!!
Why?
The process of making such a system makes you think about the places where things are located, and you will store it somehow in your mind. See it as in your primairy school time: When you made little memory-cheatingpapers ( I don't know the English words for it) you hadn't the need to use them in a test,for math or history, because you had to think what to write down in as less words as possible, and you made the conclusion in your head.
This will work the same way. Keep the little marks on your steel as long as needed, but make them very little, to make it difficult for yourself to read them. Then you will memorize them without doing that on purpose

Good luck with it, and I'm shure you will also work out a way to memorize pedalfunctions

JJ

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 4 Jul 2002 4:45 am

Some of the real old fretboards were marked with Roman Numerals as the decoration.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 4 Jul 2002 5:32 am

I don't know if he still puts them out or not, but Jeff Newman had a whole set of cardstock, full size fretboards that you lay on top of your regular fret board. These things had string and grips to use as well as the chords available at each fret. I have a set I bought many years ago. Jeff certainly is the premier teacher of steel guitar and he thought it was a good idea, but what does he know. (lol)

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 4 Jul 2002 6:05 am

Tony Prior, doggone it, you've gotten inside my head and stole my good idea, that I either thought of before or after you did!(You get all that?)
Anyway, go for it! I've seen upright bass players write, print, paint, cut, and even CARVE notches in their fingerboards. Even Edgar Meyer has dots inlaid on the side of his fingerboard. And how many fiddles have y'all seen in students' hands, with little strips of red tape on them? Shoot, I'm thinking of numbering my fingerpicks, so I'll know what fingers they go on!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jul 2002 7:06 am

Making fretboard charts is also a good way to get the theory into your head. I made many such charts when I was starting out. Funny, but the charts themselves are fairly useless. The act of making them, though, is a valuable learning experience. It teaches the fretboard in your brain's native language, because you have to figure it all out.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 4 Jul 2002 8:03 am

An addendum to my above post: I just dug out the Newman thing and there are 10 card stock fret boards. Also, I had forgotten, there was a 15 page booklet that had chord patterns, 7 intros, and a song to play (Pass Me By). It was called Pedal Power, so you know what to ask for if you are interested. I think it would be a big help for beginner to intermediate players.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 4 Jul 2002 3:35 pm

Why would you number each fret? (to begin with)If you are going to use tab as a learning tool,it saves time counting frets.Eventually you will learn that D is the 5th fret A&B down,A with A&B up,etc,etc,when you get familiar with your fretboard,take them off, it will be easier then.Worked for me.....JMHO

Bill Ford

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Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 12 Jul 2002 8:41 pm

James,
I have to disagree with Tony. When I was playing the clibs 6/7 nights a week with My red MSA..It seems that I always got under those RED lights.for a while I didn't ralize that my eyesite was slowly dimminishing...But I was having a hard time seeing the fret lines ans the little chess men on my Red MSA. also...guickly counting or trying to memorize WHERE the Numberd Frets were,tends to slow uou down. I needed all the help that I could get..so to help my Thinking..or not to have to think so much..I want to a department store and got some sticky alphabrt leters.,In gold...and placed them on the lines of the Major Not(open chord) location..every other.ie F G A BC D E
Whalla...My "thinking and Searching Diminished....I think that I play better and faster and I can consentrate on the melodies in various positions. I'm still no john,Herby,Hal, or Buddy...But it makes it easier FOR ME. A crutch? Yes..but it works for me. Wnen I got my new Carter D!@..in Blue..I huried to the stor ans purchased some NEW Silver Leters..For both necks.
My eye sight isn't great or my memory..The stickerd just make it easier for me and I think a little faster....I guess that I never got over my training wheels, It's almost like painting by numbers!!
Why do mathematicians use calculaters and computers rather than use the old slde rule.
Why do some pickers or players use TAB or music..rather than MEMORISE the song or tune
I would say "Whatever Works For YOU"!!!Some people have different abillities..or different levels of incompetents as in The Peter Principle. MHO
Grouchyvet

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 14 Jul 2002 10:12 am

Researches into learning and disciplines such as NLP have shown that we take in and process information in different ways. Some people are mostly visual, others auditory, or kinesthetic (by "feel" or "touch"), and many of us use some combination of those three inputs in learning, so what works great for one may NOT be the answer for another. Writing out charts and graphs should be very helpful as it stimulates several of those learning areas. I'd say experiment and you'll find what really works for you- notice the differences in tablature for instance- the old Sho Bud style with little pedals underneath, the relatively standard Letters next to the fret numbers, Jimmy Crawford's great Musym-Tab with the actual intervallic distance of raises and lowers notated, The dot-patterns BE uses in his C6 course... Mike Auldridge had a very complex but accurrate system in his old Dobro book. Each of these presents info in a slightly different way and stimulates us to "see" or think about it from a different direction. One of the ideas behind Newman's cards would be that you would use them for PRACTICE and remove them for a gig situation. One thing's for sure- if you allow yourself to habitually rely on something, you can train yourself to "need" it when you don't. I just played a Theme Park show with a band assembled for that show, three short rehersals and as usual I noticed that the band members who had memorized the changes and licks played much more comfortably and convincingly than the ones who were reading their cheat sheets- Live music is generally a creation of the heart, intellect, and experience working together in the moment, and having to think about where you are, where the "positions" are, etc. gets in your way there. So as you're learning the basics I suggest also putting in time practicing playing What you KNOW NOW in as many ways/places/songs as possible, build your confidence level with simpler songs, move them to different keys and gradually add more information. When I first started playing I'd often spend 8-10 hours practicing daily, and seem to retain very little once I got on stage. I was just simply tackling too much at once. When I slowed down, worked on just a few ideas- in different keys, songs etc., and then took those FEW ideas to the gig and tried them wherever I could fit 'em in, I had much faster progress. We can put ourselves under such pressure to play "hot" or "beautifully complex" that we miss the fact that playing simply and solidly is the foundation for any style, and the groundwork for "hot" and "complex". Patience!

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 14 Jul 2002 1:00 pm

only marginally off topic...
went to see Spinal Tap on tour a few years back. Nigel Tufnel had a strat-style guitar with a blonde neck inlaid with a large capital letter naming the E-form barre chord at frets where there would typically be a marker dot... and they were UPSIDE DOWN so the player could read them....

smae gutar had pickups filling every space between neck and bridge, each single coil with a header pipe going to a collector exhaust... whangy bar had an 8-ball on it like a stick shift, and there was a tachometer inset in the upper body area that the needle would move with each poower chord... what an axe!

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 15 Jul 2002 6:11 am

.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 July 2002 at 07:08 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Jul 2002 7:10 am

I would say "try and learn the major open chords and the fret that they are on". If you simply cannot remember those chords (there's only 7 with pedals up, and another 7 with pedals down), then do whatever you feel is necessary to help you...temporarily!

Playing an instrument is just like walking...it's hard to do it smoothly when you're using a crutch.