Bar dings: repairable?

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 3 May 2012 5:52 pm

Lane, if the color is still in the dent you can first clean it with naptha, let it dry, get a small amount of clear nitrocelulose lacquer and using something like a tooth pick of paper match, drop a bit of lacquer into the ding, let it dry and repeat the process until it appears slightly about level. Let it dry a few days, then take a single edge razor blade and put one thickness of scotch tape one each end of the cutting edge and with a scraping motion across the filled ding and scape it down level. The tape will protect the undamaged area around the ding and you should be able to level it down within the thickness of the scotch tape. Watch the tape to make sure it don't wear thru. After this you should be able to use a fine rubbing compound and polish it out. A final touch could be wrap a soft cloth around a 25 cent piece (quarter) and use it as a polishing block to completely level it. I have heard that the same procedure can be done with super glue but I have never personally used super glue but I do trust where I got the information.
Jerry

Richard Rice · Post by **Richard Rice** » 3 May 2012 6:08 pm

Good info, Jerry. Lacquer willcontinue toshrink for months, super glue will not. Lane, if you use super glue, don't use "kicker" to accelerate drying=njust let it dry on its own. Use medium bodied glue (like from a hobby store that handles R/C planes)which is formulated to be gap filling. It has more solids and will build faster.

MARK GILES · Post by **MARK GILES** » 3 May 2012 6:35 pm

Richard is correct as is Jerry, however there is one other thing to be considered. As early as 1979, MSA was not using nitro lacquer, but a product called Starmica. Not sure of the spelling but this is what Bud Carter told me some years ago. I'm also not sure about a '77 model. So I don' think lacquer drop fills will work flawlessly. It certainly won't melt into the finish as it would a nitrocellulose finish. I think it is similar to the urethane type finishes.The CA fills as Richard suggest might work. Then again ,it may not be invisible either.

Richard Rice · Post by **Richard Rice** » 3 May 2012 6:55 pm

Urethane is a different animal, the CA is likely your best shot. I'd avoid any oil based products, and don't apply any wax that contains silicones. In all candor, I don't use wax at all. A smooth fill is entirely possible, but the sheen may be slightly different if it is a urethane. Once your repair has cured thoroughly, a buff with Micro Mesh will help blend it. A tiny spot is more visible than an area. Once that stepis completed, a good buffing with Meguiar's Swirl Remover (I like #9) will yield a mirror-like finish. Just take your time, and do it well. Preparation and patience is key to a great job.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 5 May 2012 1:58 pm

I just had an email exchange with Reece. He must be a swell guy to work for: the man who applied the finish still works for MSA.
Kyle confirmed that the guitar was not lacquer, but Styromica, a stuff no longer in production. Kyle should be getting back with procedures for repair. in the meantime I'll pay attention to the guts.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 5 May 2012 2:33 pm

Richard!
"a good buffing with Meguiar's Swirl Remover (I like #9) will yield a mirror-like finish. Just take your time, "

It's nice to see someone else who has discovered the great job that Meguiare's #9, Swirl Remover 2.0 does. I don't even bother to clean the finish in any way first. The swirl remover does that beautifully. And the shine is as good as it's ever gonna get. And it takes so little time to do! Great stuff!

Richard Rice · Post by **Richard Rice** » 5 May 2012 3:06 pm

On our custom guitars I use nitro lacquer, wetsand, machine buff, and then Meguiar's. It has been my mainstay for many years. They pulled it from the shelves about a year ago, and substituted a different product. I think it was called "Swirl-X", but can't be certain. It was good, but not as good as the No. 9. Luckily, they came to their senses and brought the good stuff back.

It works great on chrome, aluminum, plastics, paint.. very useful product. It can also be applied to buffing wheels and pads. I generally just buff by hand, which yields a gorgeous result.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 5 May 2012 5:49 pm

Richard, pardon my confusion.
Is Meguiar's #9 the number of Swirl Remover 2.0, or are you talking about two different products?
Mica guitars are so much easier. Windex and a paper towel.
OTOH, the new (to me) guitar is much prettier

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 5 May 2012 6:37 pm

Meguiare's has been using the #9 designation since the 1950s. My 1953 Chrysler was coated with #9 products. Get the 2.0 stuff. The #9 is sort if an historical deal with them.

MARK GILES · Post by **MARK GILES** » 5 May 2012 9:08 pm

Again, Richard and John know their stuff. McGuires is tops and also works beautifully on mica guitars, I think better than Windex.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 5 May 2012 9:57 pm

I just went through the "refinish or not" dilemma. I bought an gorgeous old lacquer wood necked P/P from Jim Palenscar. The finish is a beautiful tobacco sunburst accompanied by plenty of bar dings and checking.

I decided to leave the finish alone for the reasons below:

1] it is the natural state of a fine musical instrument
2] it adds a bit of stoic nobility and character to the guitar
3] I don't have to be terrified to take it out to a gig
4] I needed to learn to stop "obsessing" and accept things as they are
5] more time to spend on practicing and playing
6] conserve finances for other gear

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 May 2012 2:56 pm

Mark,
"I think better than Windex."

Windex contains ammonia. Don't let it get on any aluminum! Ammonia does really bad things to aluminum!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 May 2012 6:53 pm

That probably explains the endplates of the MSA

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 6 May 2012 7:05 pm

I think Maguiars products are somewhat magical. After sanding the nitro instrument lacquer with 800,1000, 1200 1500 grits wet/dry paper, I buff with Swirl Remover and enhance the shine that had started at 1000 grit. Then, using Maguiars Machine Glaze, it brings the shine up even more. Great stuff!

MARK GILES · Post by **MARK GILES** » 6 May 2012 8:45 pm

John, I was trying to say that McGuires works better on mica than Windex IMO. It certainly will clean off fingerprints and smudges from endplates and necks also. As already stated, it's great for polishing lacquer, urethane and most other applied finishes.

Richard Rice · Post by **Richard Rice** » 7 May 2012 1:21 am

Lane, ammonia will attack aluminum and accelerate oxidation and pitting. In many cases the swirl remover can restore the lustre, but it takes some elbowgrease. In cases where the aluminum is heavily oxidized it can also be treated with Micromesh, then rubbed back up to a really nice shine. A good automotive wax should be applied when you are finished polishing, to seal and protect your new surfaces from moisture and contaminants in the air (and spilled beer)..

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 May 2012 4:17 am

For oxidized aluminum, California Custom Deoxidizer, and their Purple Polish. Just put on the Deoxidizer, put the Purp on top of it. Let dry, and wipe off. You're done! No rubbing required!

Richard Rice · Post by **Richard Rice** » 7 May 2012 4:44 am

Thanks for the tip, John. I haven't seen that product, but I'll be looking for it now. I also restore vintage bicycles, and that sounds like a good product to try.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 7 May 2012 6:46 am

Works on all metals. Removes rust from chrome;

http://www.californiacustom.com/

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 May 2012 11:30 am

Reece had suggested acrylic lacquer for the dings. Does that shrink like nitrocellulose?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 May 2012 1:42 pm

The Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish does wonders, too.

I decided that, if I'm gonna spend all this time prettying up my $1000 MSA, I might as well spend a bit of time on my $3000 Zum. Next time I change the strings, I'm pulling the keyheads and tuners, and polishing the keyheads.

Zum changer endplate before:

And after:

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 13 May 2012 2:48 pm

If it's nitro lacquer, it is a pretty easy fix. A solvent - lacquer retarder- which auto body guys use with a little bit of lacquer in it- with a small artist's brush---a small drop in each dent will weld all the flaky cracks and pieces in each dent together. This needs to dry a few days, it is a very slow drying thinner. Then a drop of full viscosity lacquer can be put in each nick to fill to the surface of each dent. Then each can be wet sanded to flush, and if done right, you'll never know they were there.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 13 May 2012 2:56 pm

California Custom Deoxidizer and Purple Polish blow Mothers off the map. Just sayin,,,, I've tried them all. Won't waste my time with anything else. Put on the Deoxy, then the polish over it. Wait a minute or two, then wipe off. No buffing. No second or third applications. Can do an endplate in less that 5 minutes.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 May 2012 6:24 pm

Jerry, the original finish was something called "Styromica" or something similar, but it was withdrawn in the 80s for EPA/OSHA reasons.
A gentleman by the name of Kyle, who STILL works for Reece, who applied the finish in '77, tells me that he recommends acrylic lacquer for repairs.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 13 May 2012 7:09 pm

No matter what you use to fill the dent, the main thing is to scrape it off level with the blade with tape on each end of the blade edge. This will scrape it down within the thickness of the tape above the surface of the surrounding finish. This has always worked very well for me on guitars as well as paint chips in automobile finish. Take your time and you should be able to do a nice repair. I do know that acrylic lacquer is easier to obtain than nitrocelulose lacquer. I also know that many luthiers use super glue in this manner.
Jerry