What steel is Red Rhodes playing on this tune??

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 13 May 2012 6:38 am

I know he played a Fender for years, but thought by the time this was recorded he was playing more "modern" steels..
This steel guitar sounds exactly identical to my Fender 800. Even has the high end 'almost buzz" on the high G# that many Fender cable steels have. Listen to the solo and you will hear what I am talking about. Its not unpleasant, just a characteristic I have noticed on Fender cable jobs..

Not sure what Red used in the early 70's, but man this sounds like a Fender to my ears.. This Hoyt Axton is from 74.
Anyone have an idea what Red used during these years??.. bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2DGmSuDgJ8

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 May 2012 6:45 am

If memory serves me correctly, when I saw him with Michael Nesmith in San Francisco some time in the 70's, I believe he was playing a Sierra.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 13 May 2012 7:31 am

Around that time ('74), Red had 2 Fender 800's. One in an Eb6 tuning, and one in an E diatonic tuning.
My memory tells me that he started playing the Sierra in the late '70s - early 80's.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 13 May 2012 7:32 am

I seem to remember Red playing and endorsing Dekley guitars in the '70's.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 13 May 2012 9:12 am

If its a Sierra or Dekley I would be surprised, but Red could probably get any sound he wanted from any guitar he played.. It sounds just like my 800, right down to that "buzzy tinkle" on the highest notes in the solo.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 13 May 2012 9:13 am

Skip Edwards wrote: My memory tells me that he started playing the Sierra in the late '70s - early 80's.

In Winnie Winston's book from '73 there's a shot of Red & his Sierra.
He used to make his own custom designed pickups and modify/repair amps back then as well (Red's Royal Amplifier Service).

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 May 2012 9:27 am

When I saw him, it was definitely earlier in the 70's, and while I am not positive about the Sierra, I am positive it WAS NOT a Fender I saw.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 13 May 2012 10:08 am

I think he had a Bud crossover and a ZB at one time too.

Joe Shelby · Post by **Joe Shelby** » 13 May 2012 11:47 am

When this record came out I thought it was Ralph Mooney--of course I was 17 and my untrained ears didn't know any better. Great playing though...

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 13 May 2012 12:22 pm

I forgot about that pic in the Winston book. I guess he had the Sierra earlier than I remember.

Some of his p/u's were pretty wild. A oouple of times I played (or at least tried to, given his tunings) his Fender with the stereo p/u. Odd numbered strings went to one amp, and even numbered strings to another.
What a sound...

As far as the Hoyt cut...sometimes it sounds like a Fender, and sometimes it doesn't.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 13 May 2012 1:05 pm

The photo of Red in Scotty's 'Anthology' book (taken at the convention) pictures him behind a Dekley. Book was published in 1980, so this may have been taken in the late '70's.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 13 May 2012 1:25 pm

What year is this from?

I think this bass player was with him in the Nesmith days.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 13 May 2012 2:07 pm

Dave Zirbel wrote:I think he had a Bud crossover and a ZB at one time too.

A ZB would have that bright sparkle as well... I never had a Sierra nor played one, but did have a Dekley at one time,.. It wasn't a bright "sparkly" sound from what I can recall... Still say this one was cut with his fender steel... bob

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 13 May 2012 3:30 pm

I don't know what guitar it is, but I doubt it's a Dekley. I defer to Jim Smith, but I don't think Dekley was on the market in 1974.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 13 May 2012 8:35 pm

I recall someone telling me that it was a ZB on that one.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 13 May 2012 9:01 pm

On the late '60s to early '70s James Taylor stuff it sounds like an E9-style on a ZB or something.

Here is footage of him in '73 playing a D10 ZB Custom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHLZDb9J ... re=related

Skip, do you remember when he got this ZB?

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 13 May 2012 9:35 pm

Chris, I don't remember Red ever playing a ZB, although I guess he did. Same thing with a Dekley.
I only remember his 2 Fender 800's, and his Sierra.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 14 May 2012 5:49 am

I have a picture in an old music magazine called "Zig Zag" in which he can be seen playing a MSA.

Doesn't help with identifying the guitar he played on "Boney Fingers" but I thought I post this anyway.

Chilli Willi and the Red Hot Peppers were well known on the London pub-rock circuit, but it is felt that they never captured "the magical ambiance of their best live shows on record". This, their only official live recording, was made shortly before they recorded Bongos Over Balham. Having met the band at this concert, Michael Nesmith produced five tracks at the Bongos recording session, although only two tracks appeared on the final album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzIgbzJMKpQ

Michael Nesmith brought his pedal steel guitarist Red Rhodes with him and quickly established a rapport with the crowd and played "the storytelling troubadour" with thoughts, asides and introductions. To tempt Nesmith to come to Britain to perform at the concert, Stratton Smith also asked him to produce Bert Jansch's album L.A. Turnaround, on which Nesmith and Rhodes also play.

If you want to read the whole aticle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_ZigZag_Concert

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 14 May 2012 6:04 am

I would imagine this was done on his ZB if not a Fender.. Just too cutting and twangy to be anything else according to my ears...bob

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 May 2012 6:14 am

Skip Edwards wrote:Chris, I don't remember Red ever playing a ZB, although I guess he did. Same thing with a Dekley.
I only remember his 2 Fender 800's, and his Sierra.

Thanks, Skip. Yes the Fenders are what's usually seen in his pics. I wonder if the ZB might have been a brief passing fancy for that record.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 14 May 2012 6:41 am

Skip Edwards wrote:
As far as the Hoyt cut...sometimes it sounds like a Fender, and sometimes it doesn't.

That is so true! How you doing Skip?

Russ

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 14 May 2012 9:36 am

You will notice that the tone in the Boney Fingers clip is very similar to the ZB in the Bert Jansch clip.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 14 May 2012 10:26 am

ok..i just listened to boney fingers. i would bet on it being a zb. too much midrange for a fender.
red was notable to me by his great smooth pretty tone. this cut is 'not' an example of that, but still ok. pete grant played with hoyt for years. i could almost hear pete playing this.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 14 May 2012 8:23 pm

I just listened to that clip...help!I'm smiling and I can't stop!

I had that album in about '74...I remember Mooney was on it,and maybe Red...I honestly can't remember!

But I LOVE the steel playing on that clip...and there is one lick on there that makes me believe it's Red...a lick that he also played on"Games People Play"by Freddy Weller...do you know which lick it is?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 May 2012 9:32 pm

Nope, but that Freddy Weller album is great.