Is there a copendent setup that pulls B to C?

Dayton Osland · Post by **Dayton Osland** » 30 Jun 2002 10:26 am

I've been working on some chord charts for my steel and have a copendent question.

Is there a reliable way to raise the 10th and 5th strings 1 semitone (as in A1/2)? I don't trust myself to do a fast in tune A1/2. I'll use it a few times going into an Augmented where I can hear the note come into tune.

I'm not so much concerned with Augmented Chords. You can get additional G major chords at Fret 2 (10A1/2, 8F, 6B, 5A1/2, 4F,3B) and Fret 11 (10 A1/2, 8E, 6,5 A1/2, 4E, 3) if you can get a +1 semitone pull.

In looking at various published copendents, I don't see anyone having a direct B to C change in their tuning. I understand that some can get it via A pedal + knee lever.

There are also all kinds of other G chords available at Frets 2 and 11 with a reliable way to take the B to a C.

My guitar won't be able to do this, but I'm trying to find out for a future setup (probably far future).

Thanks,

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Dayton Osland
Shobud S10

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 30 Jun 2002 11:22 am

Dayton,

I know of NO standard Copedent (except my "switchover prototype PSG") that raises the B's to C's directly.

The two most common ways that most players do it is:

1. Half pedaling A (as you said)

and,

2. Splitting the A pedal with the knee lever that lowers the B's to Bb. The problem with this split is, IF you tune to perfect JI, the C is too flat.

Plus, I simply cannot think of a way to add or change and existing knee lever to accomplish it. Without giving up something that is needed much more.

Bit of trivia:

I have had the same problem you have as to getting a consitent C using the half pedaled A pedal. But two things recently forced me to go through the drudgery of simply "doing" it!

1. When playing in the B6 mode, there is a nice V7 chord two frets down IF, the B's are raised to a C.

2. Again when in the B6 mode there is a diminished 7th chord (strings 4, 5, 6 and 7) if one engages the B and half pedals A. This enbellishes one's playing, because there is NO pedaled or knee'd diminshed on these strings as a standard setup.

Because I NEED these changes, I have actually gotten quite good at it. And also found a way to play Remington Ride, with OUT having to move the bar quickly from the 1st to 2nd fret. I can do it staying AT the 1st fret for that one passage that you probably recognize.

Good luck and May Jesus richly bless you,

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 30 June 2002 at 12:27 PM.]

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 30 Jun 2002 12:16 pm

there's a augmented chord with pedals A & B
plus the F lever that's fairly well in tune as I recall. It will move you nicely from a
I chord to a I+ to a IV nicely.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 30 Jun 2002 3:29 pm

oops. So I don't get flamed. There is indeed a 4 note diminished, IF one uses the F lever and picks strings 9, 8, 6 and 5.

The problem though with this one is; I know of know way to strum all four with that dang 7th string in there. Well, there is the BE thingy where he mutes a string with his left thumb.

Oh well, the diminished 7th chord in the earlier thread is STILL needed on strings 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the B6 mode. Sometimes at least

Sorry bout the flub.

May our Lord richly bless you all,

carl

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Jun 2002 3:47 pm

Dayton, check out my first pedal. If I had a B to A# lever, I'd use the split to get the C note. But I don't, so I added it to my first pedal.

For augmented chords, I usually back up a fret and use A+B+F.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 30 June 2002 at 04:47 PM.]

frank rogers · Post by **frank rogers** » 30 Jun 2002 4:06 pm

Dayton, One way to do this, and be in tune, is to back up the bar 1 fret. For example G no pedals 3rd fret, move the bar to the second fret and raise strings 3,4,6,8 each (via F lever and B pedal) 1/2 tone to bring them back to where they were at the 3rd fret then apply the A pedal. This "move" will result in a very "fluid" 1 to 1+5 change. The use of knee levers and pedals to "neutralize" bar movement can eliminate the need for a lot of 1 /2 tone levers and pedals.[This message was edited by frank rogers on 30 June 2002 at 05:12 PM.]

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 30 Jun 2002 11:00 pm

Well, I know it's not common, but I do have a pedal that raises by B's a half tone to C. Actually, I had trouble hitting a 1/2 pedal all the time, and I have a knee I use all the time to pull my E's to F# so I didn't really need my "C" pedal (believe it or not, I can work that B+knee lever combination well enough you'd never know it wasn't the BC combination!) Anyway, I then used the "C" pedal for that B to C change. Since I play a U12, I moved the BooWah (P8 to you D10 guys) over to P4 position, and the BooWah + that B-C makes a really nice minor to major change one step up from the "pedals down" (AB that is) position. It makes a really nice ending lick - example key of C - 2nd to last chord is full open strum at 4th fret (G#) then add the change above to resolve into a C chord still at the 4th fret.[This message was edited by Gil Berry on 01 July 2002 at 12:04 AM.]

Dayton Osland · Post by **Dayton Osland** » 3 Jul 2002 6:54 am

Hi,

I probably should have posted some chords in the first place. My interested is not in Augmented chords but in all the other chords you can get with this pull.

B0b's P1 setup allows one to play all these chords accurately.

Here are some G chords using A1/2 - there are more!

<pre>
G chords using A1/2

TablEdited by Dayton Osland
Tuning : B D E F# G# B E G# D# F# Time Signature: 4/4

G maj | | | G7 | | |
|--------------------------------|----------------5---------------|
|----------------11--------------|2---------------5D--------------|
|2B--------------11--------------|2B--------------5B--------------|
|2F--------------11E-------------|2E------------------------------|
|2A-1/2----------11A-1/2---------|2A-1/2----------5A-1/2----------|
|2B--------------11--------------|2B--------------5B--------------|
|--------------------------------|----------------5---------------|
|2F--------------11E-------------|2E------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|----------------5---------------|
|2A-1/2----------11A-1/2---------|2A-1/2----------5A-1/2----------|

| | | | G MAJOR 7 | |
|11------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11------------------------------|2B--------------6---------------|
|11E-----------------------------|2---------------6F--------------|
|11A-1/2-------------------------|2A-1/2----------6A-1/2----------|
|11------------------------------|2B--------------6---------------|
|11------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11E-----------------------------|2---------------6F--------------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11A-1/2-------------------------|2A-1/2----------6A-1/2----------|

G minor | | | G6 | | |
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|2D------------------------------|
|2---------------10B-------------|2B--------------7B--------------|
|2F--------------10--------------|2F--------------7---------------|
|2A-1/2----------10A-1/2---------|2A-1------------7A-1/2----------|
|2---------------10B-------------|2B--------------7B--------------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|2F--------------10--------------|2F--------------7---------------|
|--------------------------------|2-------------------------------|
|2A-1/2----------10A-1/2---------|2A-1------------7A-1/2----------|

| | | | G 6/9 | | |
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11------------------------------|7D------------------------------|
|11------------------------------|7B------------------------------|
|11F-----------------------------|7-------------------------------|
|11A-1/2-------------------------|7A-1/2--------------------------|
|11------------------------------|7B------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|11F-----------------------------|7-------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|7-------------------------------|
|11A-1/2-------------------------|7A-1/2--------------------------|

Gdim | | | | | | |
|1---------------7---------------|--------------------------------|
|----------------7---------------|10------------------------------|
|1B------------------------------|10B-----------------------------|
|----------------7E--------------|10E-----------------------------|
|1A-1/2----------7A-1/2----------|10A-1/2-------------------------|
|1B------------------------------|10B-----------------------------|
|1---------------7---------------|--------------------------------|
|----------------7E--------------|10E-----------------------------|
|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
|1A-1/2----------7A-1/2----------|10A-1/2-------------------------|

Created with TablEdit http://www.tabledit.com/
</pre>