Black Box or Not!

Tommy Christian · Post by **Tommy Christian** » 24 Apr 2012 6:29 pm

I am on the fence as far as buying a Steel Guitar Black Box. I would love to hear from those that have. What kind of difference did it make in your tone and was it a good investment?

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Apr 2012 10:13 pm

Essential if you are using a solid state amp. Nice if you are using tubes already. A noticeable improvement in warmth and control either way.

Helmut Gragger · Post by **Helmut Gragger** » 24 Apr 2012 10:46 pm

Hi,

I have been tinkering with buffers and tubes since decades, so I am always intrigued by magic boxes like that.

What they say about buffers is absolutely correct, but a small j-fet buffer does under circumstances not necessarliy perform worse than an elaborate circuit. What you gain with a buffer of sorts (Note: in the right place, i.e. right after the driving source) is dramatically more than what you lose.

It is certain that tubes due to their fast nature can contribute something to tone that is hard to describe technically, because it crosses into psycho-acoustics, meaning the way the ear-brain combination perceives sound. Tubes fiddle with the signal dynamics to the good. This is not researched very well, so the discussion between tube followers and solid state followers is not settled yet.

However, many tube boxes exist that derive their plate voltage from a wallwart supply. According to tube guru Kevin O´Connor this always is an inferior mode of driving them. The Blackbox uses a proper supply according to their specs which will enable proper utilization of the tube.

So, while this device seems well made, I would try a simple less pricey solid state buffer and see if it does what you expect before rushing into big investments. You may find that your pickup´s tone is not to your like something no amount of gadgets can fix. I am a total endorser of buffers, but for anything on top of that I share the motto I have read in somebodys signature line: "Mel-Bay before E-Bay"

BTW, I use a solid state amp (MOSFET) that sounds every Hertz as good as my Fender head. Nothing is set in stone.

Have fun,

-helmut

Helmut Gragger · Post by **Helmut Gragger** » 24 Apr 2012 10:53 pm

Helmut Gragger wrote:(...)the discussion between tube followers and solid state followers(...)

With follower I mean the people that promote a certain circuit topology. Ironically, buffers are mostly called source followers, so you may happily extend the concept to hardware without damage

-helmut

Ray McCarthy · Post by **Ray McCarthy** » 25 Apr 2012 3:10 am

The BB adds a certain subtle character to the sound of the strings--not dirty at all--just a more ,kind of, rounded-out timbre, and sweetens up the highs real good--takes out the harshness. But you've got to run the BB directly from the guitar, before everything else, even the VP, to get the best result.
I got mine second hand for $200.00--no regrets

Ben Banville · Post by **Ben Banville** » 25 Apr 2012 4:17 am

hi ray,

i'm having a "duh" moment...what is the BB you're talking about? would it be the BBE sonic maximizer by any chance? or is it some other beast entirely?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 25 Apr 2012 5:53 am

We're talking about the Brad Sarno Steel Guitar Black Box, I think. This unit is a noticible tone improver, where the BBE "Monic Sodomizer" did nothing for me. Two very different devices. I also have the Freeloader, which is great, but doesn't warm up the SS amp like the SGBB does. I find the I can dial in a nice tone rather quickly with it. Without it, I'm turning EQ knobs on the amp a lot more, hunting for decent tone. Of course YMMV.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 25 Apr 2012 11:10 am

Brad describes well what the Black Box give you in addition to impedance matching. I've found this description to be very accurate...I wouldn't even consider playing a solid state amp without it.

http://www.sarnomusicsolutions.com/products/sgbb.html

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 25 Apr 2012 1:59 pm

I have several BB devices and use them in different applications. I have one that is used from the steel to BB then to the input of a GP-100 into a Stewart world 1.2 power amp. I also use a BB from a lap steel into the BB then three Boss pedals and into a Vox SS Pathfinder.

IMO, no matter what you put a BB into will sound and feel warmer.

Lenny

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 25 Apr 2012 2:00 pm

Sorry for the duplicate post!

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 25 Apr 2012 3:40 pm

Sounds great, but a pain to haul around

Marlin Gengenbach · Post by **Marlin Gengenbach** » 27 Apr 2012 6:25 pm

I sure like it. I record using a PODxt (no amp) with the BB directly out of the guitar, rather than the volume pedal. On occasion I have removed the BB for a couple of days (while I get a new tube) and my ears sure miss its effect.

Jim Priebe · Post by **Jim Priebe** » 28 Apr 2012 5:46 pm

Tommy

I found the BB a good investment.
It's effect is very subtle. It makes a solid state amp so easy to use as the tone stays the same right through the volume range. The harshness can be dialed right out or left in simply by using the tone knob on it which gently changes the treble to bass response without boosting or cutting (db's). It's super quiet for recording too.
I haven't compared it to other (similar) devices but the BB is great on Guitar too. I love my GK MB 200 now and the effect on my old Peavey Special is amazing.

priebs

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 29 Apr 2012 7:14 am

I played two long gigs this weekend with an MB200 into a single K-130. The SGBB makes the whole rig really shine. A valuable asset to my signal chain. It's worth the price and weight hit.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 29 Apr 2012 10:14 am

Funny- since I switched to MB-200 and Williams steel, my pac seat is now the heaviest item I carry (that's where I keep the BB). But it is the thing that makes everything else light!
Well, for one band I still haul out the 85lb tube amp, the MB-200/BB still isn't quite at that level, but it is sure good enough for most things...and the rest of surely it is in my head, not the audience's...