A Steel Guitar Session Question for the Forum

[Fish]

Please bear with me and I'll promise to bring this discussion around to "steel players" asap.

I've always been interested in education, especially since my father is a retired 8th grade social studies teacher, so in 2008 I founded Music Producers Institute or "MPI" www.musicpi.com

At our three-day seminars we teach music production for a full day, then take our students into live recording sessions for two full days and let them observe their favorite artists at work. The students sit quietly in the control room between the glass and the recording console. Artists have discovered that they perform just a little bit better when there are a few interested people watching the recording process. Tuition runs between $800-$1200 per three-day event - excluding travel - and a majority of the profits go to the artists to help lower their studio costs. We've held sessions with Kris Kristofferson, POCO (featuring the legendary Rusty Young plus with Dan Dugmore as a guest speaker), The Del McCoury Band, Sam Bush, Delbert McClinton, Radney Foster, Raul Malo, Robert Earl Keen (with Marty Muse on steel), Todd Snider, Jason & the Scorchers, Jerry Douglas, Rodney Crowell, Asleep at the Wheel (with Eddie Rivers on his console steel) and Foster & Lloyd.

My question for the forum is this: would there be any interest in a future two or three day studio event featuring one of the top studio steel pros, if he or she were playing as a side person on the sessions? For example, I would have done anything to have seen the late, great Ralph Mooney playing steel on a session, not necessarily as a soloist, but as a master musician working on the studio job site, backing up a great singer.

After the session, we could have a one hour question and answer period with the studio steeler about everything from equipment to technique to how and why he approached the session material a certain way.

Would this be something that members of the forum would travel to Nashville to attend?

Please realize this would probably not be a steel guitar clinic or even a session featuring the player as a soloist, although anything is possible. I haven't talked to any players about this idea yet, but given the fact that many of them have played at the Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis, it seems possible that some might be interested in having a few quiet (big hint) visitors at a session. Of course, if none of them return my phone calls, I'll know this was a very bad idea. :0)

Please let me know your thoughts and thank you in advance.

Steve Fishell
Music Producers Institute
www.musicpi.com

p.s. While we're on the subject of education, I'm now taking on a few students for private lessons and have written about this in the "For Sale: Music, Lessons" section. I'll make a donation to the SGF on behalf of each student.

[Jim Park]

I would absolutely pay for this type of experience!!!

[chris ivey]

nothing personal, but i couldn't just throw out $400 a day for anything.

[Stuart Legg]

Sounds great but I’m afraid I’ll have to bash your endeavor.
You're dealing mostly with old folks here and they won’t deviate from their norm.
Besides it’s pretty much like having to sell your PSG to attend.

[Bob Hoffnar]

For anybody that is interested it would be a great experience. Actually seeing Nashville studio level players at work changed my perspective quite a bit. I would seriously encourage anyone with a real interest in the steel and music to attend. It will be a major eye opener and something you can take with you. The level those guys play at has to be seen to be believed !

[Mark Eaton]

You're dealing mostly with old folks here and they won’t deviate from their norm.

Stuart, I don't disagree with you on the cost on having to sell one's steel to attend, but as for the line quoted above, that strikes me as quite an assumption on your part.

For the players that are stong enough to get periodic session work in different parts of the country - which I'm not - I'd be all over this.

Or if money weren't an issue (but it is), I'd sign up regardless of playing ability just for the experience and education.

[Les Anderson]

This would be a great idea if the course could be held in an area where there were several steel guitar session wannabees.

I teach a course at a local college near my hometown where there was also a general interest course on Chord Structure And Concepts. It was for any musical instrument basically because it was mostly theory related. When we were asked to bring our instruments to try out what we had learned, my D10 Remington was the hit of the night; however, the instructor had no idea what a steel guitar was all about.

The course however was a huge success and it will be held again in a few weeks. If the interest is there, the people will show up.

[James Mudge]

I think that this would be a fantastic opportunity. I have not visited Nashville and it has been high on my list of places I want to see and experience. Something like this would be the icing on the cake. I've looked at your web site and from what I've seen there, your program is a well conceived method for people that are motivated to learn about music recording and production techniques in a very intimate setting. Scheduling would be the most limiting factor for me personally because of normal work & family obligations.

[Jim Palenscar]

While this is not quite in my wheelhouse, I see this as an excellent opportunity for anyone wanting to know more about the recording aspect- steel or not- of the industry and find that this kind of exposure should be highly valued and the price as I see it is quite fair.

[Fish]

The first session I ever attended in Nashville was a publishing demo session in 1985. Sonny Garrish, one of the nicest and most humble people you could meet, invited me as his guest. I remember that Brent Rowan was on guitar that day (he was also a great guy that day to me, even though I was a perfect stranger from LA).

By that time I had been in the AFM for 12 years and had toured with Emmylou Harris for five years. In other words, I thought I knew a thing or two about recording sessions. What I saw that day changed my life.

Eighteen minutes after the 10am start, the band had finished tracking a new song, which sounded like a releasable record; I couldn't believe it. Sonny and Brent landed every one of their ideas flawlessly during the live take -- and neither needed to fix any mistakes.

Then Sonny held up two fingers, and that was a cue to the engineer that he wanted to "double" his part. Then Sonny doubled his entire steel pass flawlessly -- in one take.

The band went on to record four more songs before the 1pm break (which I later found out was the norm for song demo sessions).
Although I wasn't knocked out by all the songs I heard that day, every musician played on a "master" performance level that was simply astonishing, considering they rehearsed each song only one time. I witnessed a "master" level of musicianship and creativity, executed faster than anything I'd ever heard before.


Admittedly, my idea for a future "steel guitar" MPI session featuring a "top" session steeler is very half-baked, and again, I haven't talked to ANYONE of the session players about this yet. But I'd like to know 1) would this be of interest to anyone wanting to know more about the recording studio and 2) what would be a fair value for a one or two day experience with a player of Sonny's calibre?

I'm thinking of trying a one or two day experience with one or maybe two players, with a question and answer period with them after a three hour recording session each day.

My past experience tells me this might be fun for some people to witness, and that's why I brought this idea to the SGF for feedback. Thanks everyone for your valued opinions.

[Fish]

After reading all your suggestions and giving this a little more thought, I think we've come up with a Nashville recording session experience that you might enjoy. It was just posted over in Special Events: a rare recording session with none other than guitar legend Duane Eddy and session steel player Dan Dugmore June 22-23 in Nashville. Please go to the Event Announcements section for more details and look there in the coming weeks for more session announcements featuring top steel players.

Support the Forum!

thanks,
Steve Fishell

[Mark van Allen]

I think this is a great idea, Steve. Although it might be a bit pricy for some pocketbooks, it wouldn't take too many attendees to make it a viable event. I'd love to go. Would I get a birthday discount for June 22?

[Fish]

Hey Mark...with a valid Georgia Driver's License we might be able to work something out. Please email me at sessions@musicpi.com.

[Per Berner]

Good idea, but here's an even better one: Make a one-hour well edited DVD out of one or two such sessions, a sort of fly-on-the-wall report.

[Barry Blackwood]

Tuition runs between $800-$1200 per three-day event - excluding travel - and a majority of the profits go to the artists to help lower their studio costs.

I wouldn't think the artists you mentioned need my $1000+ to subsidize their session. I like Pat's DVD idea better.

[Fish]

Hey Per,
We've filmed two of these sessions last year, one with the Del McCoury Band and the other with Poco. Neither have been released yet but with some luck they will be. All I can say is that it's a VERY expensive proposition to put something like this together.

Here is an HD sample from the Del McCoury sessions we held last May. It was filmed in Sound Emporium "A" where Dan Dugmore & Duane Eddy's session will be held (this is the same room - and the same echo chamber - that "Farewell Party" was recorded in, btw). The stereo audio is taken directly from the Neve console. This video begins with David "Fergie" Ferguson describing some of the microphones he's using on the session. Fergie was the engineer on many early Charlie Pride sessions, has worked with John Prine and U2, but he's most famous for doing all the final recordings with Johnny Cash for Rick Rubin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAvAYD2G ... e=youtu.be

[Per Berner]

Great stuff!

[Herb Steiner]

Fish
I think your idea is a fantastic one! I was already an somewhat experienced session player, but when I was prepping for my Texas Dance Time album I enrolled at Austin Community College and took a course in studio recording technique so that I could get more clarity as to what went on behind the glass and on the board.

Not for everyman on the Forum, perhaps, but as was alluded to above, your seminar would certainly of value for those amongst us who have the opportunities to take advantage of their powers of observation to listen and learn for the benefit of their personal careers.

I think the bashers of your idea speak more from their own autobiographies than from the consensus of the general Forum population.

[Barry Blackwood]

I think the bashers of your idea speak more from their own autobiographies than from the consensus of the general Forum population.

Herb, no disrespect intended, but I think you're using a very broad brush to paint those of us on the Forum with a dissenting opinion or point of view as "bashers." I'm seeing this trend become almost the norm here as time goes by.

[Herb Steiner]

Barry
Please note that I wasn't the first to use the word "bash" (see Stuart Legg's post above).

No disrespect intended back at you, but I meant no disrespect to anyone. I merely was stating my opinion that when someone says "it's too expensive," or "people here are too old to do it," or whatever naysaying they choose to pour water on someone else's idea, they should preface their opinions with a "speaking for me personally," because they simply have no way of knowing what other people may or may not feel is of value or useful; it's strictly out of their own point of view.

And since when is "painting with a broad brush" anything other than de rigeur here? I'm finding it basically useless and frequently distasteful to ask about the viability of ANY project on this forum lately, which is why my future intention is to simply refrain from doing so.

[Barry Blackwood]

Right Herb, I neglected to preface my remarks with an IMO, or something similar. My bad. The only objection I had with Fish's plan was the part where the profits went to the artists, whose personal finances I would have thought were substantial enough that they shouldn't need to have their sessions subsidized by well-meaning dilettantes.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Barry,
So the musicians shouldn't get paid ?

[Mike Schwartzman]

I have a partner in our demo/ project studio who says, "If it was easy, then everyone would do it"

Amen to that, and I think your project is a great opportunity. And I think that that you should put this post in the "Recording or Music" Section of the Forum as well as here.

One suggestion Steve: What may double the enticement for those of us interested in musicianship and the art of audio recording would be a little demo on your side of the glass...that is to (after the session) engineer a 1st rough mix from the session. You know...a great sounding room, plus great equipment still needs great production to make it shine. Just a thought.

[Barry Blackwood]

Barry,
So the musicians shouldn't get paid ?

I was assuming that the parties were visiting a regular master session as part of the seminar. If that is incorrect, then I have totally misinterpreted the entire point and I apologize to all.

[Fish]

I'll try to address each of these questions as briefly as possible (apologies to bOb; everyone please remember this is about hearing Dan Dugmore play steel on a master session).

Mike: Great points.
I should have pointed this out earlier: At MPI, you see and hear a song go from it's beginnings on acoustic guitar all the way to a final mix.

For instance, with Duane Eddy and Dan, on Day One they will record two instrumental tracks, then polish them with overdubs, etc. On Day Two they will mix these two tracks with a world-class "big name" engineer. By the end of Day Two, you'll see the complete creation of two "master tracks," and Duane and Dan will walk out of the studio with two finished master mixes, which THEY own. Also, on Day Two I'll be presenting a full curriculum with lectures on record production, performance recognition, critical listing, where to find the best studio food, how to make the artist happy, etc. etc.

Barry: You are right, $799 is a lot of money. I get it.

Without giving away our business model, MPI attendees help artists record new material by underwriting ALL of their recording expenses. We won't be tagging along to someone else's session and taking a peek; this will be Duane and Dan's session and they will own the masters when they leave. So your tuition goes to help defray their studio costs, which believe me are sizeable. Many MPI artists actually thank each attendee by name in their liner notes, and I have every reason to believe Dan and Duane will do the same.

The video I posted of Del McCoury was filmed at their sessions for their Bill Monroe Tribute album released in September. That album was entirely paid for by MPI attendees and I'm very proud to say it was nominated for a Grammy award.

So, you'll see and hear Grammy-winning talent recording in a world-class studio with an ace engineer at the board.

Hopefully you understand now why the tuition is what it is.

Herb: Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement (I'm delighted to hear you are healing fast and are back to playing music again!).
You clearly understand what I'm trying to do here: make it possible for people to learn how the recording process works by gaining them access where they would otherwise have difficulty going...right into the middle of a master session. And best of all, the artists LOVE having them there!