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Topic: Need advice for tuning my steel for recording |
Leo Melanson
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 9:01 am |
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When my band recorded our 5 song ep last year all my steel and fiddle parts were done last ... and sounded fine to my ears while recording .. but were flat when we listened back. We had to overdub a bunch. I tuned the instruments to A440 and then checked the steel to itself checking all the pulls. I play a Carp steel that typically stays in tune (with itself) and never breaks strings or has issues.
Last night we were rehearsing for another recording session next week and I noticed that I had to play above the fret lines to sound in tune with my fellow guitar players. My suspicion is that they are sharp .. because of capos and aggressive attack, but I am wondering if there are any suggestions for techniques to make the recording sound more in tune (tune slightly sharp? ) ,,, any suggestions are appreciated as this has me baffled. Should I tune to the guitars by ear and not the tuner? Are there any exercises I can do to test this out?
I am really still a rookie steel player with no business recording at this point in my experience ,, but I want to do the best job possible and not take precious studio time for pitch correction and overdubs.
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Boston area country musician
Mullen G2 player |
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Erik Alderink
From:
Ann Arbor Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 9:08 am
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If you are wearing headphones during overdubbing, you need to turn them down. If they are too loud you will be drawn flat. The best way for you to work would be to set the guitar up in the control room (if there is one) and have the amp elsewhere.
Although I prefer to record the band all together and live to tape, but that's another forum!
YMMV  |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 9:54 am
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| most people tune a little sharp....like around 442...seems to blend better with everyone else. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 12:25 pm
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here is a tip from buddy emmons - this answer was regarding cabinet drop, but he gives a good overview of his harmonic method of tuning (using harmonics to tune the steel)
fromBE:
I start with an E note from the tuner and use the harmonic method so the pedal notes will be in tune with the notes affected by the drop in pitch. I tune my 3rds around 438, but no matter how you tune them, the harmonic method takes care of the other thirds as long as you tune them to the standard you originally set. The way I tune, strings 6, 8, and 10 are no problem intonation wise except they sound out of tune until I get with a band. When I used to tune them by ear, the opposite was true. They sounded fine until I played with other instruments.
the reason i post this is because like you mention, often you are "in tune" but not with the rest of the band - its the age old catch 22 with steel
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Lana Carroll
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 12:29 pm
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Huh that is interesting - This weekend I did some recording and used the pedals-in style of tuning which results in my steel being a little sharp of 440. I noticed the intonation was pretty good with the rest of the band. I don't claim to understand why that works but hearing what you all are saying, it makes sense!
PS by pedals-in I mean, I tuned my E's to 440 with the A and B pedal both pushed, then tuned the rest of the steel by ear to the E's.
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http://music.karenandthesorrows.com/ |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 4:16 pm
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I find that tuning to 442 works pretty good if there are electronic keyboards on the session. If not, then I don't have a problem with tuning 440 (slightly flatting the 3rds). Truth be known, I am probably pulling a little sharp to compensate. Play steel with your ears, not your eyes. And yes, the unfretted instuments should go on last.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 19 Apr 2012 6:07 pm
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Yes if there is a keyboard involved it's a good idea to tune around the 442 mark -- !
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Tom Diemer
From:
Defiance, Ohio USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2012 12:16 pm
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I’m no expert on anything about pedal steel, but wanted to add this. A few years ago, Ricky Davis posted a technique for tuning that really worked for me when playing with other instruments. His point was that the tuning is A=440, not E=440, so you tune the A’s to pitch with pedals down, then tune the E’s and the rest of the guitar to that reference, which makes the E notes a little sharp when pedals up. That tip made all the difference for me, as I always tried to tune the E notes to pitch or slightly above, and everything else to that, ending up flat to the rest of the band.
Look for Ricky’s post in this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=147928&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tuning&start=0
Also, I made myself a couple of tuning tracks, one in A, one in E, etc. They are just a simple 10 to 20 second 3 chord riffs I can play back on the recorder, play along with them to check tuning in each key. You might want to make up something like that to use before starting your session. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2012 2:28 pm
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| And,,,, make everyone use the same tuner! If the guitar players are tuning open, than clamping on a capo, they need to tune again with the capo on! |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2012 4:00 pm
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| Yes, definitely tune to the same tuner and TUNE WITH CAPOS ON...not a lot of people do this on stage for some reason, but in the studio it's a must. I use a Peterson tuner with the sweetened tunings, and it works great for me. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 23 Apr 2012 11:57 pm
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| Tom Diemer wrote: |
| [...] the tuning is A=440, not E=440, so you tune the A’s to pitch with pedals down, then tune the E’s and the rest of the guitar to that reference, which makes the E notes a little sharp when pedals up. |
A long time since I have participated in recordings (or anything else for that matter), but I have always tuned to true "A" - 3d and 6th string (E-ext/E9) with pedals down, and all else to those up the neck. The steel then tends to sound just a hair sharp open on zero fret, but in tune with itself and other instruments up the neck.
Applying a JI tuning by reference frequency (A=440) and ear, does mean I do not aim to play exactly on any fret for any chord but sharpen or flatten chords by ear to get the dominant note(s) in chords to sound in tune with whoever/whatever I'm supposed to play in tune with.
I simply won't play a PSG that has audible body-drop, and it isn't an issue on my main steels - Dekley. To cure nearly all PSGs for audible body-drop detuning I put on string-sets of my selected brands with my own custom gauges. Enough of a challenge to get JI tuned steels to always sound in tune with what often is a mix of ET and (variants of) JI tuned instruments, if I should not also have to compensate for detuning in the instrument. |
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