Compensated tuning bridge on steel guitar???

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 17 Jun 2002 9:21 am

Just wondering if a compensated tuning bridge could be an option for a steel guitar.

Six string electric guitars have bridges that have adjustable saddles to compensate the for tuning for each string. Acoustic guitars also have a compensated angle for the bridge.

Would it be feasible to have adjustable fingers for a pedal steel or am I way off base here?

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 17 Jun 2002 9:29 am

An adjustable bridge would require individual support for each finger so each could be adjusted individually. I don't think there is physically enough room for that, plus I think it would alter the tone characteristics of the guitar. It "might" be possible to design the whole changer to slant though.

ZB is one guitar I know of that has an adjustable nut that allows it to slanted at the nut end.

I really haven't noticed the need for adjustments though. Old strings seem to affect intonation much more than the string length.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
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C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Jun 2002 9:42 am

No need for a compensated bridge on a steel guitar because it uses a straight bar and does NOT depend upon pushing the strings down on the neck. Which is why a regular guitar needs one.

carl

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 17 Jun 2002 3:16 pm

Bravo Mr. Dixon.

Ed Miller Jr · Post by **Ed Miller Jr** » 18 Jun 2002 3:50 am

Let we forget intonation compensates String length, string GAUGE and action. look at a stelling b@*!o. The bridge is straight, the string heights are pretty much the same treble side to bass side but Geoff puts this nifty compensated nut on them to compensate for the differing string gauges. Don't get me wrong, I love the Newman chart, and please no Banjo flaming, I agree thought, A compensated changer would probably create more problems than it would fix. Also this is why on stright three barrel tele bridges you can improve the intonation of certain string pairs by changing string gauges.
Ed[This message was edited by Ed Miller Jr on 18 June 2002 at 04:52 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jun 2002 9:40 am

What problem would a compensated tuning bridge fix? I don't understand.

I think it could get really confusing. Think of the interaction between string tuning, pedal tuning and a compensated bridge. Then throw in cabinet drop and hysteresis, and the now-standard compensator pulls that counteract those effects. Finally, add your tunable splits into the mix. Yikes!

I really wouldn't want a compensated bridge even if one were available. The pedal steel is complicated enough!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 18 Jun 2002 11:33 am

It might help as far as I can tell. My bar is straight but I find that I need to angle it more and more as I play higher on the neck. I'm not sure of what is involved but there might be something to an adjustable bridge. It could be done if the pulls came from the other side of the neck . There are some very subtle tuning issues going on with the steel that could use more investigation.

Bob

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Jun 2002 4:21 pm

There is a slight action that occurs in the intonaton, and that action is the reaction of a hand pressing downward on the bar. Each string goes sharp a silly iota. depending on the gauge, and the amount of pressure exerted. This subtle contrariety accounts for the steel guitar's design to baffle the minds of many. There will always be a "better" way to perfection.

Bill H.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Jun 2002 5:28 pm

You're right Bill, there is alays more going on than meets the eye (or ear, as the case may be).

Some years ago, I was adjusting the intonation on a friend's solid-body guitar. After getting it sounding pretty good, I hooked it up to a strobe tuner...just to see how close everything was. To my surprise, although the opens were near "dead-on" when it was standing vertical, the tuner showed everything went sharp when the guitar was laid to rest horizontally (nothing touching the neck). The slight weight of the neck alone, despite the truss rod and the string tension, made the tuning change! It wasn't hardly audible, but it was enough to set the strobe wheel spinning. I then thought..."what happens when the player puts his hand on the neck?" It's dang near impossible to make a chord without adding force in some direction, isn't it?

I guess this is why one guitar player sounds perfectly in tune, and then when another player uses the same guitar, he has to "tune it for his own hands" to sound good.

Truth is stranger than fact.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 18 June 2002 at 06:30 PM.]

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 18 Jun 2002 7:43 pm

Hello Len,

What you speak of has already been done.

In the mid 70s a young man by the name of Jerry Stark from Texas brought a S-12 PSG to Scotty's convention. If I recall correctly, the bridge levers/fingers were independently mounted and could be adjusted back and forth. The adjusting screws were underneath the guitar.

Like wise his nut rollers were also independently mounted on square posts and were adjusted underneath the guitar. This adjustment was to level the strings and get rid of bar chatter at the first few frets. Jerry played his guitar on the convention that year.

I believe Jerry Stark is the son of the makers of the Howard PSG.

Does anyone know what Jerry is doing these days?

Roger

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 18 Jun 2002 8:00 pm

Jerry Stark is the name I was trying to think of, and yes he does have an adjustable bridge and nut on his guitar. He is still in the DFW area and I think he played the Dallas show last year or the year before. I don't think he's building any guitars for sale though, just his own.

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 18 Jun 2002 9:41 pm

I still keep listening to my old 33.1/3 L.Ps - and you know what.............with all these years listening to the likes of Hughey, Brumley, Green, Emmons etc etc etc....I still can't hear any need for any of the above.
Sorry, just my humble opinion.

Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other weird things.

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jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 19 Jun 2002 11:59 am

I found that tuning all the beats out (tempered tunig without disonance aka the pleasant sound)playing open or down low is ok, but as you move up the neck the 5th and 6th (plain .020) string sharpen at a quicker rate than the rest, try it I think all guitars do it, I think adjustable bridge is valid question, not that I have a clue how to do it, and as Jim Smith said it would affect tone, I have thought maybe putting changer behind the nut, I know that presents it's own problems