TRICK KNEE LEVER for Universal Tuning?

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 14 Jun 2002 3:28 am

I understand that the TRICK KNEE LEVER for E9th works like this:
1. lowers the 2nd string D# to D
2. raises the 7th string F# to G#
3. lowers the 9th string D to C#

How would you drop the D string to C# on a Universal guitar?
There is no D string. There is a knee lever which lowers string 2 and 8 to D.

Anyone knows? Bobbe? Bobby? Bob? b0b? Tom? Dick? Larry?

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Peter den Hartogh Fender Artist S10, Remington U12, Hilton VP, Gibson BR4 lapsteel, Guya Stringmaster copy, MusicMan112RP Peavy Rage158www.ucaa.co.za
[This message was edited by Peter on 14 June 2002 at 04:32 AM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 14 Jun 2002 6:32 am

I haven't seen the video, but since no one seems to want to answer you, I'll give it a shot. On my Universal, to get the 9th string D-C# change, I have a lever that pulls the 9th string B-D. When it's at D, I engage the A pedal. Letting off the lever takes the 9th string from D-C#.

Warning: Cross shaft flex may cause tuning problems and the C# will probably be sharp when you let off the knee lever.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-13 8&8=-

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 14 Jun 2002 6:46 am

As usual, Jim is right on, both about the D to C# equivalent (B to D on 9, then releasing to the A pedal) and the fact that sometimes mechanical limitations prevent that being perfectly in tune (so what ELSE is new -- a raise returns sharp

)

Another option that I use -- especially on my minimally configured push-pull universal -- is lowering E to D on 8 with a knee lever then using a backward slant to get the C#. I use that, in particular, for the Emmons/Day style contrary motion between the 6th and 9th strings where 6 goes up with the B pedal and 9 goes down to C# with the same lever that lowers the 2nd to D on 10-string E9. The backward slant takes a bit of work to get it spot on, but I use it all the time for that particular application. For other string combos it may not be appropriate.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Jun 2002 9:13 am

I don't understand why you'd want that lever on a U-12. Its main purpose, from what I see in the video, is to add jazzy chords to the E9th. The U-12 has tons of jazz chords already, thanks to the C6th pedals.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 14 Jun 2002 9:54 am

Jim, because of cross shaft flex I have taken my change-to-D off string 9 and put it on string 8.

Bobby Lee, I am not proficient enough to be able to "visualise" the changes on paper. So I just wanted to experiment a bit and compare it to the other pedals.

Larry, I will try the bar slants. Thank you for reminding me of this.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- My Animation College in South Africa[This message was edited by Peter on 14 June 2002 at 11:25 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 14 Jun 2002 2:25 pm

b0b,
I was ONLY referring to the D to C# change, which I consider a trademark country change. I already have all the changes the 'TRICK LEVER' gets on separate levers and, even though I need all the TRICKS I can get

I don't have room for anything redundant on my guitars. And, you're right, there's no lack of swingy/jazzy flavored chord choices on a U-12.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Jun 2002 4:46 pm

I see. You're right - the 9th string D to C# is part of a lot of Nashville licks. It's one of the things that's missing on a U-12.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 14 Jun 2002 10:13 pm

Nashville licks" Hey, it's either music or it's not, what's Nashville got to do with it. What is a " Nashville lick"?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Jun 2002 12:40 pm

'Bobbe's lever' will only play Hendersonville licks.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Jun 2002 4:52 pm

A "Nashville lick" is something you hear on a lot of recordings that come out of Nashville. It's a term I just made up, like "New Country Shit" (NCS).

Sorry for the diversion...

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 15 Jun 2002 7:01 pm

Ha,Guy`s,don`t worie,pretty soon there will be no Nashville lick`s,since there will be no more steel guitars anyway, so who cares.
damir
Sierra U-12 Diet-tonic

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http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne/damirzanne1.html

Dan Dowd · Post by **Dan Dowd** » 16 Jun 2002 6:51 am

What am I missing folks. My 9th string B goes up to C# with my A Pedal and D with my LKL. I get lowering that sound by holding the LKL in with the A pedal down then releasing the LKL. Is this the sound we are talking about?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 16 Jun 2002 11:25 pm

It's not just a sound Dan, it's a series of combinations that you can achieve much easier and faster with the chance of doing changes that are impossible without doing it all one one knee. (changing the three strings)
You are a very smart man Dan, so please come by the store and let me show you what this is all about. Good question though!

Dan Dowd · Post by **Dan Dowd** » 17 Jun 2002 4:58 am

Bobbe, is there no end to learning the steel guitar. Just when I learn the answers, they change the questions. Almost like taking the FAA written.I will take you up on your offer to show this to me. As always, Bobbe, I am continually impressed with your talent both on and off the ground.