| Author |
Topic: Touch and Tone |
Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 12:27 am |
|
I better start a new thread for this.
I am sure this subject has been addressed before, but searching for "tone" is futile 
I may appear affixed to Jerry Byrd, but show me the comprehensive teaching material of the other great players and I will buy it. 
Jerry has his own touch and tone like everybody. Sometimes I wonder if his playing was forceful or not. I want to look at different ways of doing it before I decide on my own style.
I sometimes try playing very soft with the volume pot up and then again very loud with the volume pot down. All has its virtues.
I can´t make up my mind how he does it.
Does anybody know if his playing was forceful or soft or both?
-helmut |
|
|
|
Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 2:53 am
|
|
| It could all be described in detail, but it all comes down to making the whole package smooth and effortless like a seasoned singer's sultry voice. Just keep listening to his, and other great's, playing until you get the feel, and watch as much video as possible. He did have a bit of force to his picking, but subtle. His left/bar hand was where the money was, smooth vibrato and movement, but his right hand attack was perfectly measured as well, just right for whatever was called for. He curved his picks quite a bit, and used the hand positioning often described as the 'claw'. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 3:58 am
|
|
It is difficult to get a lot of finesse if you are playing very forcefully on an electric steel. I played acoustically for a long time and had to change my technique a bit when I switched to electric. A lot of it had to do with adjusting my picking force. You can hear the same thing in Sol Hoopii's playing when he first went electric--he almost had a timidity to his playing, if you can believe it, but he was adjusting.
Jerry Byrd had said that he used whatever strings he had available at the time when he strung up his guitars--even using all .016s for the first 3 strings if he had to--so, just going on that alone, he would need to be able to finesse the strings according to the different gauges, because too much force on an under-tensioned string would result in out-of-tune notes. Jerry definitely had it all together.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 5:54 am
|
|
Both Ron and Mike have given excellent answers.
They have accurately answered the question.
Since you said you have the Jerry Byrd Course,
if you have the "big book" reread the "Lesson II"
pages 33 and 34. Especially the top of page 34
where he describes tremolo in terms of style. |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 6:46 am
|
|
i would image you would play with the attack necessary for the tune.....each is different, there may be variations all throughout the tune.
i think of it the way a violin player uses the bow - to think there is ONE way to use the bow is crazy - you are constantly adjusting the speed / pressure / where you bow the strings / if you play with the flat hair or tilt the bow and just use the edge / slured notes / detached notes...etc, etc - violinists spend YEARS working just the bow variations.
the same is really true with any other stringed instrument.
i see so many people ask about it, and it is a valid inquiry, but there is no one answer fits all - i would say that you are better off picking with "authority" - that is the advice i have learned from great players, thats where your tone comes from. you dont want a "timid" little tone - letting the electronics/amp do all the tone work. that doesnt mean claw and whack the strings, it means to hit them with proper force from the knuckle, using the larger muscle groups, pushing THRU the strings, not "picking at" the string - you could probably read some classical guitar articles on this, that close to the same idea, adjusted obviously.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
|
|
|
Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
|
Posted 16 Apr 2012 2:04 pm
|
|
Electric guitars don't have a lot of dynamic range compared to acoustics. Play with as much force as makes you comfortable and produces the tone you want.
@Jerome Hawkes:
"pushing THRU the strings, not "picking at" the string"
Excellent advice! This is called a "rest" stroke in classical guitar technique. It's also the main way to attack the string with a pick in gypsy jazz technique. I highly recommend to everyone who plays steel to take a few lessons from a good, open-minded classical guitar teacher for some right hand technique tips.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 17 Apr 2012 6:25 am
|
|
just to clarify, i dont want to confuse anyone by thinking you use a "rest stroke" on the steel with index/middle strokes - the movement is similar, from the knuckle, but you cant "rest" the pick attack on the next string as you would in a "proper rest stroke" (you can with the thumb stroke) because, the hand is picking strings on your lap/console vs a guitar which is played against the chest - the hand being in a completely different position. plus, the added difference of having metal fingerpicks on.
the mechanics of a good strong tone however, are universal - and i learned alot about good tone from reading classical guitar pedagogy years ago and using snipits of that to this day. you just use trial and error and adjust - see what works and what doesnt.
although i'm far from an authority on JB - from reading everything i can, watching videos and being somewhat familiar with the instruction methods of the time period, he seems to play single melody lines/accented notes rest stroke with the thumb - this was the way that was taught from the 20's-50's in various methods
i can imagine that the players of the golden era, those with the tone we all seek to emulate, first started on acoustic instruments at some point and thus carried over many of those habits to electric.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II
Last edited by Jerome Hawkes on 17 Apr 2012 6:45 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 17 Apr 2012 6:41 am
|
|
To go slightly off topic for a sec, I tried using a rest stroke on the steel with the thumb
(more of a gypsy jazz picking style) and it just wasn't working out for me because of the
difficulty in getting note separation--the palm blocking was extremely difficult in that
context--and the fact that it was so hard to control the subtleties and timing of each picked note.
Just an observation.
I find that using pick blocking technique is
conducive to classical or fingerpicking guitar technique in some ways, not that I have spent
any time playing classical guitar (I really haven't). It's just always been comfortable for me to do.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 17 Apr 2012 8:19 am
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| and the fact that it was so hard to control the subtleties and timing of each picked note. |
more way off topic alert:
thats the major hurdle in adjusting to that style - however, its also the reason why you will never hear a modern alternate u/d picker play authentic gypsy jazz - the phrasing is completely different due to the limitations/timing of the strokes. this is true of any "rest stoke player" - Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, Django, etc - i tried for years to get "that" sound and it just didnt happen...when i stumbled upon how people actually played in the 30's-50's and the way they thought harmonically, then the lightbulb went off - and from playing flatpick bluegrass for so long, i had developed a pretty strong alt picking right hand - it took me 2+ years to work that in to where my phrasing wasnt all wacked out....and its still not right.
.....so, when i took up the steel, i was very careful and aware of what kind of technique i was learning. i worked on my right hand for a LONG time before i even thought about learning "to play".
you can get the feel of the importance of phrasing using a little exercise i swiped from buddy emmons:
pick 2 adj strings, 1 open, 1 fretted at the unison position and work on this pattern; TT2T22T2 (T=thumb / 2 = middle) do it at a good tempo but not so fast you cant control it. then do it backwards; T2TT2T22. OK, now the fun part; play an 8 note scale or pattern/lick the way you regularly would, then with picking pattern #1, then #2 and LISTEN to the different phrasing - you are playing the same notes, the same timing/tempo, yet the 3 phrases have a completely different effect.
to me, this is the BIG IDEA that separates good phrasing from boring predictable phrasing...and i might even ponder the reason great jazz players sound "hipper" than rote players....anyway, thats for another day - but since the topic was tone and taste.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
|
|
|
