steel guitar makers are like gasoline makers

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 30 May 2002 2:48 pm

I'd have to agree with Jim Palenscar here- try it yourself, and you'll figure out just how great a deal a modern pedal steel is. I'm building 2 steels, obviously not enough to achieve any economies of scale. I've probably spent $900 in materials, most of it used (scrap aluminum,etc), but the sheer number and variety of widgets , doodads and thingamawhatsies required make this a very demanding project. If I didn't enjoy the process and challenge, this would be a really foolish endeavor. Fortunately, I'm having fun... mostly! A "factory" steel is a real bargain!!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 May 2002 4:42 pm

I think they're a helluva deal! What else can you buy for say...$3,000...use it for 20 years...not spend a dime on maintenance...and then turn around and sell the thing for over half what you paid for it?!?!

Consider this, most all of us spend a couple grand on a computer system...and less than 10 years later, you can hardly give it away!

Considered as a long-term investment (over 15 years) and excluding strings, the guitar would cost you less than $100 a year. Been to the movies, a baseball game, a football game, played golf, gone fishin' or huntin' lately?

$100 a year won't give you very much at any of them, will it?

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 30 May 2002 4:46 pm

Every time I take a look under my Sierra U-12 I get impresed.If someone would give me 10K I wouldn`t be able to build anything even close to something like this guitar.I like to have a good instrument and I`m ready to pay for it.
Damir

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http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne/damirzanne1.html

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 30 May 2002 7:09 pm

I know for certain that the builders are not getting rich and I know that they are in it for something more important to them then the money and that is the love they have for the instrument and the guys that play them and the pride they feel when they see and hear someone playing the instrument they built and something beautiful is coming out of it. Those are the real reasons they build them. I know this because I was there when pedal guitars were just coming into existence and the first Pedalmasters were being hand built one piece at a time.
Jerry Roller

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 30 May 2002 7:31 pm

Speaking of being overpriced...Anyone have to hire an electrician lately???

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 30 May 2002 7:53 pm

Mike- Where can I get a NEW D10 for $1500.??? Or a new S10 or S12?????

The builders can't sell them that cheap and make money. You are right about that...al

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 31 May 2002 2:02 am

Just for fun guys and gals: In the scheme of things it appears that Pedal Steels have gone price crazy? Maybe, maybe not.. but compared to gasoline ? Did you ever try to re-sell a gallon of gas after you used it ?

My new Sho-Bud Pro III D10 in the early 70's was just under $1500 , a new Emmons Legrande II is around $3000, so we have doubled in price in 30 years ? I think compared to what else we have aquired , want and need, we shouldn't let the Steel manufacturers know what's happened to prices around the country the last 30 plus years !

70 Vette , $4200: 2002 vette $50,000
Bought house 1972 $34K: Same house 2002 $350K
Cheap burger 72, .15 cents cheap burger now .99 cents , and I'm not sure it's meat !

Telecaster used original 72, $175 Telecaster used 2002 $900( 52 RI , not even the real issue !)

Movie ticket 72 I think $2, now , well you gotta go at 9 in the morning for less than $5 !

Don't tell the steel builders any of this stuff..

just for fun..

For me, playing Steel is like a mini vacation as well..

Oh yes vacations,
Airline ticket 72 NY to Florida $79 Peoples Air Now : out of business..You can't even walk to Florida for $79 !
Hotel room '72, $39 now, bring two credit cards. blah blah blah

still having fun...

tp

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 31 May 2002 2:47 am

well this turned out to be a long subject so lets see, hmm lets see where the sun shines. well ive never been on welfare and thing they should gather up the people that are and put them in a pedal steel shop too build steels then the price might go down, and also hmm im a electrician and 15.00 per hr feeds the family ok. and everytime i sit down to my guitars over the past 10 plus years i think if the vacation i could have went on. the last guitar i got i paid 1600.00 for it but ill bet you a dime to a donut if i was to put it up for sell 90 % of you would wine about the price and its only 2 years old. and i also bet if one was to talk to all your wife and kids they would say how many times you talked about the crazy price you payed for your guitars.
as far as emmons. sho-buds, carters. what ever one they all play the same and sound the same. again just sharing my thoughts as always if it makes anyoone mad big deal have a good day Joe from west virgina

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 31 May 2002 4:17 am

If Steel Guitars were made like automobiles in hugh assembly lines, then the price could probably drop to $1200 to $1500. I have a small manufacturing operation and at one time considered building steels. After looking at several, I realized all the hours and materials involved and was amazed that they could sell them at the prices they were. On top of this, they were discounting them to dealers! This discouraged me from making steels very quickly. Several years ago, I visted with Paul Franklin Senior and if I remember correctly, he said he only produced 12 or 15 guitars a year, but this could have been just all he was able to sell in a year at the time. I do remember multiplying the figure he gave me by $3000.00, and it only came up to $35000.00 or so per year. Figuring if he was getting all his materials, overhead, and any outside labor required for FREE, he wasn't making any high standard of living by any means. I think the only steel you will buy that is overpriced would be one of poor workmanship and quality. Any of the quality guitars we have being built today are worth every penny and then some.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 31 May 2002 11:14 am

Tony Prior-Now you've done it! Watch Carter raise their prices now.

The only reasonabley priced New Pro guitar left on the market.

Priced right because they are Efficient, use better production techniques, and can buy parts in large enough volume to save them money which they can pass on in lower prices to the customer .....al

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 31 May 2002 11:44 am

Quote: " As far as Emmons, Sho~Buds, Carters, what ever one they all play the same and sound the same"

I have to agree with Weirauch. This guy definately has his head up his @$$ so far that his ears are no longer able to hear correctly.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 31 May 2002 12:54 pm

Sorry Al, I never thought of that !! Maybe John and Ann are on vacation today and won't read this thread, ya think ?
tp

D10 Carter as well...

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 31 May 2002 2:14 pm

Tony ... Surprise! We are not on vacation

John

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 31 May 2002 5:18 pm

Could be worse--try being in the recording side of the music business also. My standard freelance "rig" that I carry to sessions as an engineer is well past $50K. I have a vocal mic that cost the same as 4 standard D10s. I do have an understanding wife, though.

Takes money to make money....[This message was edited by John Macy on 31 May 2002 at 06:18 PM.]

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 31 May 2002 5:59 pm

Three things that we must not let happen to the builders, to ensure prices stay reasonable:

1. Union
2. Federal Government mandates
3. Taking their Company public

Avoiding these situations should keep them from becoming like the auto & oil industries.[This message was edited by Kenny Davis on 31 May 2002 at 07:07 PM.]

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 31 May 2002 7:15 pm

well guys and gals lets just lay this subject to rest, i was just passing some thoughts is all, and yes i still feel the same, but if I had to buy another one tomorrow i would bi&&& about the price but still would let it override the new mower i need, so if everyone is done just close it out. of course if you have a comment let it out thats what it is all about.Lynn Barcus west virgina

Steve Frost · Post by **Steve Frost** » 31 May 2002 7:38 pm

Mark Twain said ( something to the effect of) "We're all ignorant- just about different things...." It doesn't seem like you're listening to the reasoned responses on this thread. I can understand that the personal attacks could leave you feeling defensive... but the botttom line, IMHO, is that a steel is a steal! These are not based on style or whim, like the outlandish prices for electric guitars. There are a lot of parts, a lot of assembly and a lot of adjustment involved in this instrument. Nuf said!

Van Ertel · Post by **Van Ertel** » 31 May 2002 8:40 pm

Some people know the price of everything but appreciate the value of nothing. Anybody that complains about the price of a well-made pedal steel guitar ought to have to play a Maverick for the rest of their life.

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Van Ertel
Fessenden U12/Williams U12

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 31 May 2002 9:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Three things that we must not let happen to the builders, to ensure prices stay
reasonable:

1. Union<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney, lays off 4000 workers and gets a $12,000,000 bonus. Michael Ovitz gets fired after a little over a year because he couldn't do his job, he gets $140,000,000 as a severance package. Enron, Global Crossing, Dynegy, Anderson...If you think that the Unions are the reason prices aren't reasonable, you are a bigger fool than management takes you for.--Chas Smith

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 31 May 2002 9:33 pm

Joseph,i would submit to you that you should know what the hell you are talking about before you get on here and make such a statement! Have you considered the cost of materials (which keeps going up) or tooling,or stamping,or the over head it takes to run machinery....not to mention the labor involved. It takes big money to get set up where you can produce guitars in a timely manner and still be cost efficient and yet be competitive with your pricing. I'm sure that i speak for any manufacturer that tries to make the best possible product they can. Let it lie? I don't think so!! If your trying to push buttons,you've done it. Congratulations! Get a life,get a clue! If you have the courage,you can email me and i'll give you my phone number. Then if you have the courage to call,i can personally tell you how ignorant you are and that you should get some information before you start spouting off about something you obviously know nothing about!

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 31 May 2002 11:33 pm

Chas - After reading your response, I guess I should make an adjustment to my post:

1. Taking their Company public
2. Union
3. Federal Government mandates

Chuck Norris · Post by **Chuck Norris** » 1 Jun 2002 2:15 am

Well Jo, It is a big deal that your speaking so uninformed. I know at least 3 Steel builder`s well and they are 3 of the tops in the industry, I wont mention there names because Bud, Dale and Gene would have my head. OPPPS!!!
I CAN TELL YOU, you can`t build a world class Steel for $1500.00 period and did we forget about marketing. Jo my man do you always talk like this, not having any Idea what your talking about. That is a big deal your embarrasing your friend`s here. Stop playing that overpriced guitar and take that vacation. By the way does your wife know about this problem, POOR GIRL!!!
The headless Steel salesman
Chuck Norris NFM

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 1 Jun 2002 4:01 am

well well guys i do in fact know what im talking about its a dog eat dog world the only interest people have in this world is take the other guys money yep i indeed know what im talking about and its not me with my head up my a%%. so may u guys have no reason and really i dont give a s^^^^ what any of you think.

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 1 Jun 2002 5:28 am

Joe, if you can build a top quality steel that equals those being produced today and sell it for $1,500 or less, DO IT and prove us all wrong!!! Otherwise, shut the hell up and go do something productive like mow the lawn or wash the car or re-wire your house to code specs! Now there's a real challenge.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 1 Jun 2002 6:23 am

Apparently Jo knows what he's talking about so let me be the first to put my order in here. If Jo can build a first class pedal steel equal to the Carter or Emmons guitars for $1500 I'll take the first one. I prefer black mica or just a good birdseye maple with aluminum necks, 8/7 will do.

Jo if you can build these guitars as cheap as you think they're worth you should get a lot of orders right from this forum.