Flakey buyer here

[Rick Mastrude]

Music store owner [?] Chuck Mc Gill backed out of commitment.Wasted my time.Recommend caution dealing
with this guy.

[Chuck McGill]

Rick I'm sorry. I slept on it and changed my mind. You will sell the steel and I hope you get what you want. Good Luck

[Cartwright Thompson]

Hey, s#*t happens, get over it and move on. I've been on both sides of situations like this...

[Rick Mastrude]

I`m not letting this slow me down,mind you.
Just cautioning fellow member and I would hopw you would do the same.
The solution is to get "earnest money" before cancelling the sale.

[Dave Simonis]

What are you selling?

[Rick Mastrude]

.;...

[Randy Gilliam]

Chuck McGill is a Great Guy To do Buisness with.I am Sure you are to. You will sell your steel, Be Patient, Randy G.

[Ben Elder]

I have bought from and sold to Chuck and I can attest to the other SGF members' endorsements.

[David Higginbotham]

I don't believe that if someone changes their mind about making a purchase that equates to them being "flakey" or a bad person to deal with. I've changed my mind on purchasing items and have had people do the same with me. There is usually logical reasoning in place for the change of heart and should be respected.

[Douglas Schuch]

I will take the opposite side of what most here seem to be saying. I think an agreement to purchase an item at a specific price is a contract that needs to be honored. I think the legal system would agree as long as there is a record of the agreement between the two parties (emails, fax, signed contract, or both agreeing that a verbal contract did exist).

The exact wording can be very important, however. "Would you accept X dollars for your guitar?" is an inquiry, not an offer to buy. Stating "I will give you X dollars" is an offer, and if accepted, constitutes a contract. Reneging on such an agreement is, IMO, significant, and if I knew someone had a history of doing so, I would not accept their offer until I had earnest money.

I would recommend all forum members to enter into transactions to buy or sell with that attitude. The time spend dealing with someone who does not follow through could mean losing a deal with someone else. As well, some people are selling instruments they love only because they have a pressing need for the money. To waste their time is discourteous. Having said that, if someone does renege on an agreement it is not the end of the world, and enforcing such contracts legally due to the value of a steel guitar vs. that of a lawyers time is not feasible. Stuff happens.

I do not know either parties involved in this situation. I do, again, encourage forum members to not reach agreements unless they completely intend to to follow through. If more time is needed to decide, then take more time BEFORE reaching an agreement. The ability to buy and sell instruments on the Steel Guitar Forum exists primarily because of the good word and good reputation of most forum members. We should all be interested in maintaining that.

Cheers,

Doug

[Jerry Overstreet]

Good points all around. Sometimes it's best to suffer the embarrassment of bailing out of deal rather than suffer the agony of seller's or buyer's remorse.

Yes, I agree that a man's word should be his bond but at times it's OK to re-think a decision.

I've been on both sides of the issue. Been let out of and let people out of such deals. It usually works out for the best and it's not something I would feel necessary to divulge to the entire membership. Only if someone suffered a loss of equipment or payment.

[Rick Mastrude]

..it wrecked the momentum of the transaction.
After the item was declared sold,interest
vanished...and don`t forget-this guy runs a music store

[Bill Howard]

This is the very thing B0b needs to stop.
There is not a person alive who doesnt change their mind. This is why legal contracts like loans on homes and several other things are not valid for 3 days 72 hrs... People change their minds.... I have you have everyone has.If you guitar isn't a piece of ^%$# then someone else will want it,if it is a piece of *&^%$ then He made the right decision.
Usually klines are great selling guitars. Winnie Winston loved them...

[Dave Mudgett]

... The exact wording can be very important, however. ... etc.

Sure, but I think that even your whole premise is way too legalistic. Even if someone says they want to buy something (they haven't really bought it until goods/money/whatever are exchanged), there are conditionals that are basically impossible to pin down at long distances like this. When you're buying something you can't really see, touch, or try out, it's pretty tough to insist that the mere fact that someone says, "I want it." means they must always follow through and actually exchange money and do the deal. I think this is doubly true of long-distance transactions.

For example, let's say a hypothetical "Joe" calls up a music store, they tell him that they have something for sale, and Joe says, "I want it, I'll be right down." Are you really gonna tell me that that potential buyer is now legally obliged to buy it when they get there? I just don't think it's true.

The ability to buy and sell instruments on the Steel Guitar Forum exists primarily because of the good word and good reputation of most forum members. We should all be interested in maintaining that.

Good word and reputation are important, but they are not enough, nor are such things determined in any technical fashion. The ability to buy and sell things on this forum exists primarily because most of us try to make sure that, when a deal is made, both sides are happy with it. If that was not the overriding rule here, buying and selling would turn sour, as it would in any market. You're equating some sort of 'technical statement of intent to buy' with 'good-faith agreement to a mutual deal'.

To the original poster of this thread:

1. This thread is not a For Sale thread. If you want to talk about a steel player on this forum, it doesn't belong in this section, IMO.

2. This is long-distance, sight-unseen buying and selling, and potentially fraught with many problems. We can't actually see, touch, or play the goods. Most serious commercial transactions (not fly-by-nighters on ebay, but reputable people or organizations that sell things online) have a return privilege. Reputable sellers don't want a buyer to be unhappy with their purchase. I think trying to push someone to complete an online transaction they have misgivings about is a very bad idea. Or maybe you'd prefer to deal with the massive problems created when a deal like this is coerced, the buyer is unhappy, and now wants to return the item for a refund.

3. This is not ebay - I think many, if not most of us here are concerned about the interests of the other party in a transaction, in addition our own interests. I call that 'enlightened self-interest'. From a practical point of view, I think your decision to start this thread says as much or more about you as it does about the buyer who backed off the deal.

Occasionally, a buyer or seller here will get cold feet - sometimes for good reason - and back away from a deal. Unless money and/or goods have changed hands, it shouldn't be a big deal. Nobody has lost anything. There is not necessarily any 'flakiness' going on.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but I think this thread was a bad idea. My opinions.

[Rick Mastrude]

Easy to judge when you aren`t involved isn`t it.
It is a bit irritating though...
Anyway,the solution is to get earnest Paypal deposit.
The first $100 gets the goods.
No BS.
No harm.
No foul.

[Rick Mastrude]

This is becoming counter productive and is starting
to piss everybody off,especially me.
So,let`s end it here...

[Rick Mastrude]

It says I got "took"
That I believed this guy to be a man of his word,etc...
Since you aren`t involved just look at the facts before
you offer up such a @@@@@@ opinion...




TOOK"

... The exact wording can be very important, however. ... etc.

Sure, but I think that even your whole premise is way too legalistic. Even if someone says they want to buy something (they haven't really bought it until goods/money/whatever are exchanged), there are conditionals that are basically impossible to pin down at long distances like this. When you're buying something you can't really see, touch, or try out, it's pretty tough to insist that the mere fact that someone says, "I want it." means they must always follow through and actually exchange money and do the deal. I think this is doubly true of long-distance transactions.

For example, let's say a hypothetical "Joe" calls up a music store, they tell him that they have something for sale, and Joe says, "I want it, I'll be right down." Are you really gonna tell me that that potential buyer is now legally obliged to buy it when they get there? I just don't think it's true.

The ability to buy and sell instruments on the Steel Guitar Forum exists primarily because of the good word and good reputation of most forum members. We should all be interested in maintaining that.

Good word and reputation are important, but they are not enough, nor are such things determined in any technical fashion. The ability to buy and sell things on this forum exists primarily because most of us try to make sure that, when a deal is made, both sides are happy with it. If that was not the overriding rule here, buying and selling would turn sour, as it would in any market. You're equating some sort of 'technical statement of intent to buy' with 'good-faith agreement to a mutual deal'.

To the original poster of this thread:

1. This thread is not a For Sale thread. If you want to talk about a steel player on this forum, it doesn't belong in this section, IMO.

2. This is long-distance, sight-unseen buying and selling, and potentially fraught with many problems. We can't actually see, touch, or play the goods. Most serious commercial transactions (not fly-by-nighters on ebay, but reputable people or organizations that sell things online) have a return privilege. Reputable sellers don't want a buyer to be unhappy with their purchase. I think trying to push someone to complete an online transaction they have misgivings about is a very bad idea. Or maybe you'd prefer to deal with the massive problems created when a deal like this is coerced, the buyer is unhappy, and now wants to return the item for a refund.

3. This is not ebay - I think many, if not most of us here are concerned about the interests of the other party in a transaction, in addition our own interests. I call that 'enlightened self-interest'. From a practical point of view, I think your decision to start this thread says as much or more about you as it does about the buyer who backed off the deal.

Occasionally, a buyer or seller here will get cold feet - sometimes for good reason - and back away from a deal. Unless money and/or goods have changed hands, it shouldn't be a big deal. Nobody has lost anything. There is not necessarily any 'flakiness' going on.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but I think this thread was a bad idea. My opinions.

[Jeremy Marcum]

Why don't you try to work it out with the other forum member in private rather than having a PUBLIC BASHING?
There has been more than enough of that going on here lately.

[Dave Mudgett]

It says I got "took"
That I believed this guy to be a man of his word,etc...
Since you aren`t involved just look at the facts before
you offer up such a stupid opinion...

TOOK"

... The exact wording can be very important, however. ... etc.

Sure, but I think that even your whole premise is way too legalistic. Even if someone says they want to buy something (they haven't really bought it until goods/money/whatever are exchanged), there are conditionals that are basically impossible to pin down at long distances like this. When you're buying something you can't really see, touch, or try out, it's pretty tough to insist that the mere fact that someone says, "I want it." means they must always follow through and actually exchange money and do the deal. I think this is doubly true of long-distance transactions.

For example, let's say a hypothetical "Joe" calls up a music store, they tell him that they have something for sale, and Joe says, "I want it, I'll be right down." Are you really gonna tell me that that potential buyer is now legally obliged to buy it when they get there? I just don't think it's true.

The ability to buy and sell instruments on the Steel Guitar Forum exists primarily because of the good word and good reputation of most forum members. We should all be interested in maintaining that.

Good word and reputation are important, but they are not enough, nor are such things determined in any technical fashion. The ability to buy and sell things on this forum exists primarily because most of us try to make sure that, when a deal is made, both sides are happy with it. If that was not the overriding rule here, buying and selling would turn sour, as it would in any market. You're equating some sort of 'technical statement of intent to buy' with 'good-faith agreement to a mutual deal'.

To the original poster of this thread:

1. This thread is not a For Sale thread. If you want to talk about a steel player on this forum, it doesn't belong in this section, IMO.

2. This is long-distance, sight-unseen buying and selling, and potentially fraught with many problems. We can't actually see, touch, or play the goods. Most serious commercial transactions (not fly-by-nighters on ebay, but reputable people or organizations that sell things online) have a return privilege. Reputable sellers don't want a buyer to be unhappy with their purchase. I think trying to push someone to complete an online transaction they have misgivings about is a very bad idea. Or maybe you'd prefer to deal with the massive problems created when a deal like this is coerced, the buyer is unhappy, and now wants to return the item for a refund.

3. This is not ebay - I think many, if not most of us here are concerned about the interests of the other party in a transaction, in addition our own interests. I call that 'enlightened self-interest'. From a practical point of view, I think your decision to start this thread says as much or more about you as it does about the buyer who backed off the deal.

Occasionally, a buyer or seller here will get cold feet - sometimes for good reason - and back away from a deal. Unless money and/or goods have changed hands, it shouldn't be a big deal. Nobody has lost anything. There is not necessarily any 'flakiness' going on.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but I think this thread was a bad idea. My opinions.

Rick, this is not a For Sale thread - instead you attacked another forum member in the For Sale section simply because he decided not to proceed with buying a steel, all of which occurred on a different thread. IMO, there is no legitimate purpose for this thread here, but of course the moderators will ultimately decide that.

I still argue that you have not been "took" for anything - if you had just let this pass, you would undoubtedly sell your guitar. I'm sure many people here are interested in a nice Kline Universal. But you're not just selling a Kline Universal. IMO, what most people want, here and elsewhere, is a guitar and a deal which fits what they want/need, and that includes the concept of being satisfied with the purchase. My take - your comments here seem, to me, to indicate your lack of interest in this concept.

Again, I would not remotely interfere with your For Sale thread, but I think I'm very much within bounds to comment on this type of thread, whether you agree with my analysis or not.

[Rick Mastrude]

That`s all.Simple.
You make a promise.
Later you decide to go back on the promise.
You inconvenience the seller who has alerted other buyers that the sale is over.
The seller warns others potential sellers.
He has done a service for the forum,right?
No "bashing"
Just a heads up.
"Friends" don`t act this way,do they?

[Dave Mudgett]

That`s all.Simple.
You make a promise.
Later you decide to go back on the promise.
You inconvenience the seller who has alerted other buyers that the sale is over.
The seller warns others potential sellers.
He has done a service for the forum,right?
No "bashing"
Just a heads up.
"Friends" don`t act this way,do they?

My name is not "Jack", and, IMO, there's a lot more flying around here than 'facts'.

Fact: buyer backed out of sale, inconveniencing you. I think everybody here gets it and, believe it or not, empathizes.

Opinions and/or inferences (which may or may not be founded, depending on your view): buyer is flakey, anybody who changes his/her mind overnight about a multi-thousand dollar purchase before money/goods are exchanged is automatically dishonest or untrustworthy, various opinions here are 'stupid' or people are a##holes, and so on.

My opinion: if you're gonna start a thread specifically to criticize another member by name, stick to 'just facts' and you'll probably get a lot less arguments. Otherwise, many people will conclude you're 'bashing'.

BTW - the only reason I got into this discussion at all was because it turned into a general discussion of buy/sell ethics with a post trying to legalistically argue that a verbal "I do" on an online Buy/Sell forum like this always implies both a legal and ethical requirement to complete a long-distance transaction like this. I think there are a lot of wrinkles to this, but I think the main issue is that both parties should be comfortable with the transaction, without reservation. If there are reservations, it is a bad idea to try to force it - there's another buyer down the road. We're talking about used pedal steel guitars about which the seller has complete information and a prospective buyer has very incomplete information. The balance is seller's inconvenience vs. buyer's likelihood of not getting what they bargained for. I think this places special responsibility on the seller. That remains my opinion.