Ever completely retune for session work?

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 7 May 2002 9:24 pm

I know that 6 string players will sometimes retune a few strings or even flat the whole guitar to do some recording or stage work. It's no biggie, usually, they can often tune away from standard and then tune back very quickly. How about steel? Have you ever gone into a studio and found you needed to flat the entire PSG by 1/2 note or something like that in order to get it to fit a song?

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Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 7 May 2002 10:32 pm

I will do what ever is necessary to get what the producer wants. A couple of weeks ago, I had 13 sides that ran the gamut from 'sort of country', which I played sort of straight; to metal and grunge meets Roxy Music. I retuned the C neck where the 2nd string was E and everything else was Cs and Gs for the power chords, for example. If there's a note that I can't get easily, I'll retune one of the ones that isn't being used, to get it.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 May 2002 11:05 pm

I've done what Chas described once or twice but I have enough trouble just playing my regular tuning.I keep my steel pretty dialed in to standard A440 and all the changes tweaked tight.If I'm overdubbing to a track and I'm sharp or flat to the track,I just usually VSO the track up or down to match my tuning standard.You can do this w/analog tape,ADATs/DA-88s,ProTools/DP3 or what-have-you and it's much easier than trying to tune up or down a quarter step or whatever.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 May 2002 11:21 pm

I retemper my tuning by ear so that it suits the track pretty often. I'm just talking about a couple cents here and there between the 3rds, 6ths and whatever. Not the whole neck.

Every once in a while I will change a string by a step or so to get some chord. That is when a composer or arranger has written something I can't figure out how to play any other way.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 08 May 2002 at 12:24 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 8 May 2002 6:44 am

I have a session at noon today.

They gave me the existing tracks last week and told me to think "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young.

Anyway...

They recorded this song in F# (as far as I know, they only want steel on one song).

I've tuned my steel down a half step and am playing the tune in the G positions, for no other reason than I think I can play more intuatively in those bar positions (ie Pavlov Dog comfort zone).

I wish I would've done that before I sat in with The Derailers, because they tune down a half step, so I had to play a 2 hour country set a half step lower than where my G-C-D country tune brainwashing says it should be.

I think it made me play a bit on the timid side, making sure I was on the right fret all night, instead of blazing away in the ol' G-C-D country comfort zone. (So if you sit in with The Derailers, take the time to tune your whole axe down a half step, you'll have to retune all the pedals, too).

Yes, I almost always have to temper tune to the recorded instruments.
I decide what pedal combos I'm going to use and then tune both open and pedal combos to be in tune with the tape.

So if you don't have a recording to work with in advance, you have to do like Bob says and tune by ear to be on the money.
I always request to be the last intrument to record and get a digital copy of the exisiting tracks (CD or mini-disk usually).

For todays session I have already made a tuning chart specifically for this tune, so all the ear work is done at home and I can dial in silently and quickly at the studio with the tuner (assuming something hasn't drastically changed!).

Some of you may have heard of this band.
The band leaders name is Art Alexakis and the band is "Everclear".
Here is website with stuff about this group: http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/music/artists/by_genre/rock_and_pop/everclear/

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 08 May 2002 at 07:46 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 May 2002 7:45 am

Go get em Pete !

I know you are nervous about the tech demands of playing in that style. What I do is take off every string except for string #5. Then I put the bar down on the 3rd fret and pick the string. After that I push down the very first pedal and then let it up again. I count to 4 (now this is the tricky part because you need to count along with the music ! ) and then do it again. I keep repeating that move until the song is over. Don't worry about all that fancy stuff like what chord it is because that is all fixed with studio magic anyway.

On the serious side:
If they are paying cash make sure you add a decimal point to what you would normally ask for.

Bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 May 2002 4:01 pm

No. I've never gone to a studio that wasn't "dead-on" at 440! That's where I tune, and as a result, I don't have to do major "tweaking" when I get there.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 9 May 2002 6:27 am

I'm assuming scale is $75/hr, because they said they usually pay Greg Leisz triple scale, and that I should get double scale,
Anyway, I arrived at 11:45am and was driving home at 1:45pm. 2hours, and a personal check for $300 from Art Alexakis.

I used a GD Walker Stereo Steel preamp to board, as well as a line to a Session 500.

I played a total of 7 times through the tune.
I knew the tune by heart and told them that I was hoping to nail it on the first take.

The first take was great and the engineers loved the tone and effects (they also had a dry line recording).

Art had a few requests based on what he heard so we did a few more takes with Art giving me more directions and used the "air steel" technique to convey his thoughts as to where he wanted the steel.

I have been telling people in the studio to use this technique (air steel) to help me give them what they want, where they want it.
I find I respond very well to that type of direction.

It was a pretty basic session with the steel doing alot of big slide ups into the chorus, big sweeping chords with lush reverb/delay between the vocal lines, and a few nice, slow, cliche, AB pedal bends ala Heart Of Gold, just as requested.
I'm sure when the CD comes out everyone will say I sound "like a beginner"!

Art is a really nice guy and the 2 engineers there are now big Pedal Steel fans and were continually commenting how they should try using steel on other songs and other projects.
Art was mentioning using some steel on a solo project that would be on the Alt.Country side, which is one of his roots as a musician.
So I'm hoping to work more with this studio and Art Alexakis.
I've done some stuff at this studio in the past, but not in the last 2 years.

Everclear has alot of videos on MTV and have several albums out, some of which have sold copies numbering in the millions.

Needless to say, similar to some other rock bands (Aerosmith, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, ect) who have had pseudo ballads receive major air/video-play, I'm hoping this song will be a hit single/video, because I told them "I would be glad to appear in the video!"

Viva la Pedal Steel!!!

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 9 May 2002 8:53 am

Good question Bill. If you're psg is tuned to where you usually sound good with the other instruments, and for some "unknown" reason it's just not sounding right, be sure to ask someone in charge if the instruments that have already been recorded are "final" takes before trying to make extreme bar placement adjustments or retuning your whole guitar. Learn from my mistakes. I was doing an "informal" recording where pitch-wise the singer was all over the place and the acoustic guitars sounded out to my ears. I did my best (which really wasn't good enough) to blend and sound good with what I was hearing. Sometime later they replaced the acoustic guitars and resang the vocals. They left the pedal steel as is though, never asking me to come back and replay to the new tuned tracks, so the results were much less than pleasing to my ears when I heard the final mix. Funny thing is most everyone involved with the project loved the pedal steel on it, but I generally won't play it for anyone, and never listen to it. -- Marc

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 9 May 2002 8:59 am

Hi Pete,

Not sure where you got the $75/scale figure.

Union master scale per session (3 hour) is $313.45 or $626.90 for double or leader scale (which is what a single player overdub really is). Demo scale is $147.50 or $295.50 for double, with limited pressing just a bit higher. The employer also has to make a payment to Heath and Welfare and Pension Funds in addition to your payment. However, in towns where the union is not strong--anything goes.

Cya in St. Louis.[This message was edited by John Macy on 09 May 2002 at 03:59 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 May 2002 9:30 am

Pete,
Check into the local musicians union and see whats happening in Portland. Besides the money that John was talking about you get cut into the recording fund payments every year and that sucker can pay some bills.

I wasn't kidding about the add a decimal point thing !

It sounds like you did a great job !

Bob

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 9 May 2002 2:59 pm

Yeah, I got the feeling no-one really new about the pay scale.
To me, it was all about opening doors to future projects.
So there a was alot of "smile and nod" type behavior on my part.

(I was trying to be "cool"

).

Question...
Alot of bands tune a half step flat these days it seems (for whatever reason).
When you guys record with bands that tune a half step flat (they tuned down a half step but played normal G-C-D position chords on guitars and bass), do you just play it in F# on the steel?... or tune down to match the band (that's what I did in this case)?

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 9 May 2002 3:22 pm

Alot of bands tune a half step flat these days it seems (for whatever reason).--->>Stevie Ray Vaughn

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 May 2002 5:06 pm

Thanks John! Now I can tell 'em how big a bargain my playing really is!

If I'd made that much money playing steel, I'd have quit long ago.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 9 May 2002 8:37 pm