Replacing Fender Stringmaster tuner

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Mar 2012 9:47 am

Butch,
What dimensions are they asking for? Perhaps this will help you;
http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtchtfdm.htm

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 9 Mar 2012 3:44 pm

I have a NOS twin line kluson that I took the key off of.
The gear is mint and Im sure that it will match to yours exactly.

It's yours if you want it:

[/img]

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Mar 2012 3:46 pm

Well, Butch,,, there ya go! You just gotta figure out a way to attach it.

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 9 Mar 2012 4:00 pm

I'm sure I can help with it, I'm a tool & die maker.

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 17 Mar 2012 11:58 am

After a delay in getting a replacement gear, here's where I am at the moment. Had to remove the gear from a tapered string shaft, in order to mount it to my Stringmaster string shaft. Used 1/16" drill for pilot hole, then stepped-up 2 drill sizes, used counter-sink bit to widen hole, then used pencil-shaped 1/8" grinder bit on my Dremel. As I ground-away, I couldn't see the 2 flat & 2 curved sides outline of the string shaft, so I decided to just file the whole side of the gear & punched shaft area--I didn't want to damage the edges of the flat & curved areas on the gear that touch the shaft. I may have filed a hair into the teeth, but hopefully it doesn't matter--I tested the gear movement by inserting it into the casing temporarily & it seems to move properly. Today, I went to a nuts & bolts part house & got the 440 bolt I'll use for fastening. Next, I need to go to Grainger supply Monday & get a 440 tap & proper drill bit.

The last 2 pictures show the top & side view of the new gear on the Stringmaster string shaft--it fits perfectly. Stay tuned for further details!!!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Mar 2012 12:05 pm

Great!

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 17 Mar 2012 1:18 pm

Looks great Butch, I wouldn't worry about that outside relief being removed, the shaft is held captive from the other side, and plus it gives you more area to work with the screw head clearance.

Looks like your doing real good with what you have to work with.

For outstanding workmanship in making a pilot hole and counter sink look as if it was done on a tooling lathe,
I here by give Butch the "Golden Light Bulb" Award, Here you go Butch:

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 21 Mar 2012 1:00 pm

Thanks for the encouraging words John & Hugh--don't know whether to laugh or cry at this stage!

I want to remind everyone that this is my FIRST time to do this--sort of an exploratory endeavor!
First picture shows clamped-down peice of wood on the drill press with the Stringmaster string shaft pressed into the 1/4" hole. Keeping the drill press in this set-up position, I drilled a 1/16" pilot hole, stepped-up one drill size, then drilled the #43 drill size hole for the 4-40 tap.

Ready to tap:

Tapped hole--noticed while drilling & tapping, the metal Fender used was soft--lucky for me!

Wanted to use this 4-40 phillips head, but found it was too THICK--couldn't close the casing of the tuner up flush with the side of the 4-tuner strip.

Had to go to the nuts & bolts place & find a THINNER head 4-40 bolt. Would rather use phillips head bolts for just about anything--better grip--but had to settle for the slotted head pictured on the right--had to cut it, as they didn't have 1/4 " length. The slotted head is just a hair thinner than the phillips on the left:

This shows a very slight opening of the tuner case against the tuner strip. Have to decide to file gear or the thinner slotted 4-40 head:

This picture shows the mark on inside of tuner case:

Sort of a dilemma--if I file the bolt head, it'll reduce the grip of a screw-driver if it ever needs to be taken off again. The other choice is to file the gear. Also, I did consider counter-sinking the string shaft area to use a counter-sunk bolt, but I decided against that, as I am concerned about the counter-sinking going beyond the string shaft area & into the gear--taking away some of the gripping area of the string shaft into the gear. Also, counter-sinking could do-away the area needed to LOCK the gear onto the shaft. So, now I'm left with a shaping-to-fit process. Stay tuned for further details!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Mar 2012 1:05 pm

Lookin' good Butch! I think I'd take a tiny amount off the screwhead, and maybe a tiny bit off the casing, using your Dremel. On final assembly, I'd also use some Loktite.
JB

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 21 Mar 2012 1:42 pm

Good job Butch! I'd shave the head down too. You don't have too much room to make up and most of the meat comes off the center domed portion where there is not a lot of drive force applied anyways. And if need be, you can always deepen the slot a little too.

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 22 Mar 2012 4:12 pm

Flat head Philips is the answer IMO.

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 27 Mar 2012 9:49 am

I've hit a bit of a snag--I bought some X-tra Heavy Duty Grease at Home Depot for the gear. Someone mentioned that it should not have an odor--this stuff is green in color & has a slight odor. Back when I opened the original Stringmaster tuner case, it had a glob of grease in there. Anyone know where the gear grease is readily available?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Mar 2012 9:52 am

Butch, why wouldn't any good quality grease work?

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 27 Mar 2012 10:55 am

John, it's because I just don't know. Never worked with assembling gears, people thru the years never bothered to tell me, or I never found out myself. Someone mentioned the grease should not have an odor, so I'm trying to follow the suggestions given to me.

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 27 Mar 2012 2:39 pm

That was me that made that comment, meaning, dont use Axel Grease, that stuff really can stink.
Any quality grease should be fine, white grease comes to mind.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Mar 2012 2:43 pm

"dont use Axel Grease,"

Oh! Man! No kidding! Anyone who has taken apart an axle can tell you about the stench!

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 27 Mar 2012 4:22 pm

It turns-out I have a tube of White Lithium Grease. On the front it shows a diagram of 2 gears together--suggesting it can be used for gears. And, it does not have an odor. I looked on both containers--White Lithium Grease & X-tra Heavey Duty Grease--there is no reference to AXEL GREASE on them. I guess I'll go ahead & use the White Lithium Grease. However, the original grease that was inside the Stringmaster tuner was brown in color, if that means anything--making it about 57 years old!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 27 Mar 2012 4:26 pm

Use the new grease,,, and forget about it. It's not like it's a motor that's turning 20,000 rpm.

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 31 Mar 2012 1:19 pm

This should be the FINALE of my acccidental/haphazard/reluctant/do-it-yourself project. If you look at the beginning of the post, all I wanted to do was to somehow/someway get a replacement tuner for my Stringmaster. In my investigative/research out in cyber-space, it seems the overall notion is to just replace the whole tuner, which is fine if the tuners are relatively current, but when you're dealing with guitar's that are 50+ years old, that puts a different perspective on it. You either have to repair the tuner or wait for the original/replacement tuners to become available on Ebay or elsewhere. I still have the formidable task of trying to locate the exact gear replacement from the gear suppliers--who knows how that will turn-out? Because of this project, I was given some info on NEW/OLD STOCK tuners--12 of them--that have the same gear I used here. I purchased them for possible future use, but I don't think that's the overall answer, as far as readily available parts. Mark furnished an excellent step-by-step pictorial of installing a replacement tuner, but not the EXACT tuner replacement--the tapered string shaft really bothered me. Because of that & the high cost of someone else doing the work, I reluctantly got involved in this. I consider myself an average shop worker, so I guess I proved to myself & hopefully others, that it can be done. BUT, through the whole endeavor, it seemed that I was constantly fighting the huge factor of the UNKNOWN--not knowing HOW TO DO IT--I hate that!!! Talk about learning, needless to say, the next ONE will be a lot easier! First, and foremost, this major effort was to fix my own Fender Stringmaster in the best way possible--conforming to the strict Vintage Steel Guitar standards I imposed on myself--KEEP IT AS STOCK AS POSSIBLE! In doing this, I wanted to document it in a step-by-step manner to try to help other Vintage Steel Guitar lover's out there--in whatever way I can.

In my finishing shaping-to-fit process, this is where I left-off:

After filing, to make sure of gear placement, I marked it after final fitting with slotted bolt.

Checked to make sure gear & string shaft spun freely on tuner strip before applying Loctite.

Decided to use the Blue Loctite, as it's the removable type.

Applied White Lithium Grease.

Used Channel-lock pliers, had good control in starting to bend straight-up tabs over at an angle.

Covered gripping edges on pliers with tape, pressed tabs down flat.

Tried to keep marks from tools down to a minimum.

Rapaired tuner on left/end of strip.

Rapaired tuner on top/far/right end--string No. 1.

On the 4-neck Stringmaster, repaired tuner is on the 3rd neck-up from player.

All finished! As far as the FEEL of turning the repaired tuner knob--I'd say it's about medium resistance. I've found that out of the other 31 tuners--some turn more easily than others.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 31 Mar 2012 1:23 pm

Butch!
Great job! And, as we discussed, it looks right!
JB

Mark Bridge · Post by **Mark Bridge** » 31 Mar 2012 1:24 pm

Nice work there, glad to see the final result, and thanks for sharing. Mark

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 2 Apr 2012 8:54 am

John & Mark, thanks for the compliments! I needed that! Well, as before, when I've made something in my shop, I've come-up with a BETTER WAY TO DO IT! If I'm correct in my thinking, the thought of ROUTING the gear & string shaft attachment end, so I wouldn't have to file the head-bolt & gear to clear the casing, came to mind. It would be more work. I'm looking into the bits on the internet--looks like ROUTING bits are for wood & CNC MILLING BITS are for metal. If anyone has the knowledge on the milling bits & can guide me, I'd really appreciate it. I would like to mill/recess just enough, so that no filing of the bolt-head & gear would be required.

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 2 Apr 2012 3:07 pm

Yes it is called an End Mill, however to recess a screw head you use either a counter sink (tapered hole to fit a flat head into).
Or a Counter Bore (for recessing a cap head screw).

Butch Pytko · Post by **Butch Pytko** » 2 Apr 2012 3:43 pm

OK, Hugh, the Counter Bore looks like what I want. I'm guessing I'd have to look for an industrial machine shop supplier--any suggestions on a supplier? Grainger here may have it. Don't think Sears would have it. The 4-40 bolt head I used on the tuner is about 3/16" Dia. Would need a Counter Bore a little larger than that.

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 2 Apr 2012 5:45 pm

MSC will have it...

The Steel Guitar Forum

Replacing Fender Stringmaster tuner

Beauty photos eh...