Any drawbacks to plain old E tuning? Advantages?

Colin Black · Post by **Colin Black** » 18 May 2000 5:39 am

Hey, folks. My first lap steel (Rickenbacher Model 59, which I am thrilled with--even my girlfriend loves it!) arrived a week or two ago, and I am having a blast trying to play the thing. Because I am a guitar player (flattop, that is) I am vaguely familiar with the open E tuning, and consequently I decided to start playing lap steel with that tuning (1) because I had heard it was fairly standard and (2) because I thought it would be an easy "in." I now feel comfortable enough (although I am still pretty awful) that I would consider trying out some other tunings if I thought that E was limiting me too much. Can anybody give me any thoughts? (BTW, I intend to play mostly Americana and so-called "alt country.")

Thanks a million,

Colin

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 18 May 2000 6:08 am

Open E has some great low-end growl. I like having low E on the bottom. In my opinion, the problem with tuning to a major chord is getting good minor chords. You have to fudge minors by playing two-note minors instead of full triads.

I prefer to use C6 (8-string) because it has a minor triad built into it. But C6 doesn't have that low end that open E has. I've actually begun experimenting with E6 on my 6-string, low to high: EG#BC#EG#, the low E being the same as guitar low E. It's very low, all strings are wound, and it has a limited range of pitches. I haven't figured out if it is going to work yet, but it's fun to mess around with. Certainly growls.

If you don't have the Arlen Roth video yet, you might want to check it out. He does a good portion of instruction in open E. [This message was edited by Chris Walke on 18 May 2000 at 07:11 AM.]

Joe E · Post by **Joe E** » 18 May 2000 7:33 am

I like using open E tuning because I can get the Duane Allman sound out of it. For that southern sound, thats what I tend to use. Otherwise I tune to G, like my Dobro. Right now I don't see huge limitations on playing 2 note minors when needed. (I reserve the right to change my story if I play a song thats completely writen in a minor key) But when playing songs that uses a minor as a passing chord I think its fine.

Joe

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 18 May 2000 8:13 am

I started on open E tuning and still use it frequently. The advantage for me in using this tuning is that the tonic (the note representing the base to which all other notes relate) is represented three times, and the third (which indicated whether the chord is major or minor) is only present once. By leaving this note in or out of your playing, you can "fake" playing minor chords. You can also play a portion of the minor chord three frets up from the major chord.

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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 May 2000 10:27 am

The biggest problem with the E tuning is the lack of minor chords. I think that it's a good idea to raise the low B to C# when a song calls for minor chords.

If you find that you really don't need the low E much, replace the lower two strings with lighter gauges and tune them to B and D. Then, in songs that have minor chords, drop the D to C# (a quick, easy retune with a harmonic from the G# string).

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0bstamp.gif" width=72 height=72>Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
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Colin Black · Post by **Colin Black** » 19 May 2000 5:32 am

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Great ideas for getting around the minors problem, Bobby Lee--thanks. I've got the Arlen Roth video coming in the mail, so hopefully that will help me along in the open E tuning, and if I get ambitious maybe I'll try the C6 just for kicks sometime.

Cheers,

Colin

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 19 May 2000 6:44 am

If you like the open E no sweat! Play thr 2 strg minor and let the bass man earn his money by carrying the good bass line to make it sound like a full minor. I don't use the OPEN E tuning but I have a great bass man that still helps.

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Jude James Shiels · Post by **Jude James Shiels** » 19 May 2000 8:06 pm

The best way to get around two string minors is to play in standard tuning, I have done so for years and there are no limitations as opposed to open D, E or G. You can play just about anything in standard that you can in those opens with good technique, unless you really need those big open chords.

Troy Cody · Post by **Troy Cody** » 19 May 2000 9:05 pm

I have one question- what is a standard tuning for a steel guitar?? The first tuning I was taught, back in the 50's, was open A then E. Now I play in A, E, E13,
E7, E9 chronomatic, G, A6, and C6.
I think they are all standard...

Jude James Shiels · Post by **Jude James Shiels** » 19 May 2000 9:39 pm

if you are referring to me Troy, I meant standard guitar tuning, sorry I wasn't more specific, I meant to the open tunings (E,D&G) that are common on guitar as well as 6 string lap steel.

Lew Collins · Post by **Lew Collins** » 20 May 2000 6:11 am

I'm a real novice at dobro and lap steel tho I've been playing acoustic and electric guitar since 1964 or so. So take my comments with a grain of salt! Anyway, open E is great for blues...Elmore James, Dust My Broom, kind of shuffles. Those note choices fall right under the bar in open E. I play mostly in high G dobro tuning like my teacher, Sally Van Meter. But if I want to play some bluesy stuff in a minor key, I tune EGDGBD: open Em7. Great for "Black Magic Woman" kind of grooves and lots of complete major and minor 7 chords. Lew

Don Sutley · Post by **Don Sutley** » 20 May 2000 6:20 am

Colin,

I play in C6 for a couple of reasons:
- I like "that sound"
- You've got a minor chord on the top 3 strings, a minor 7th chord on the top 4 strings, a major chord on the bottom 3 strings, etc.
- I'm still a novice and there is some instructional material for C6 such as Dewitt Scott's "Basis C6th Nonpedal Lap Steel Method" book and Cindy Cashdollar's videos.
- There's quite a bit of tab for C6th on this site and other sites on the internet.
- Strings are cheap. I get mine from http://www.juststrings.com for $3.78 for a 6 string set.
Hope this helps.

CHUCK BRATTAIN · Post by **CHUCK BRATTAIN** » 20 May 2000 11:45 am

I think the old E tunning is great for a six string steel guitar, you can play just about any style of music on it with a very solid sound. We used to tune the 5th string to
D so we could get 7th's and dimished cords.
We would also tune the 2nd string to C# for minors, 9th's, 7th's, 13th's, and all kind of great passing chords. This tuning was called c#minor or coquette tuning.

Have a Great Day, Chuck

Colin Black · Post by **Colin Black** » 22 May 2000 6:14 am

As always, y'all are a wealth of information! Thanks for all the great ideas. I think I may even suck it up and buy the Jerry Byrd course book to help me through it all. What's a hundred bucks to feed this growing addiction, right? :- ) (Although I sure would prefer it on video.)

Thanks again, everybody.

Regards,

Colin

Ric Nelson · Post by **Ric Nelson** » 22 May 2000 11:54 am

I have played an E tuning since the 1950s and currently use it on my 7-string ShoBud (resonator). It works just fine for me, playing in a "classic" Country band; from Honky Tonk to George Strait to Elvis and Pop. From "Slowly" to "Somewhere My Love" to "Easter Parade".

By pulling the 2nd (B) string, I can get a 6th cord and pulling the 3rd (G#)and/or using slants, I get many of the other-than-major cords that I need. It only takes a little time to learn where the minors are (using two notes, as Chris posted above--which works).

BUT, the Bluegrass bands seldom pick me up and if so, not for long. I don't have the Bluegrass sound, with an edge, that they have become accustomed to. As one of the "Legend" Country artists put it, "That's their loss, especially if they want a unique sound."

The favored Bluegrass key of G is not one of the better choices for an E tuned dobro, with A thru F being the better and B to E being the best.

Shot Jackson, with his E tuning, played some mighty good Bluegrass on sessions with The Osborne Bros, The Louvin Bros,and Roy Clark. Then there is the Johnnie and Jack material, which some call Bluegrass as well.

As posted above, with the E tuning, you can really make it growl. If you have a Quarterman cone, it really comes out all the more. I have one on a ShoBro that I use as a back-up.

I also used an E tuning on my 6-string for many years and preferred it over the A and G tunings that I used while first learning to play.

When I play my 8-string fry pan, with an E6th tuning, it makes the change of instruments a little easier on me.

I haven't had a need for a kapo yet either, even though many are making book that some day I will.