Well, it's happened to ME!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 4 Mar 2012 9:55 pm

Last Monday I shipped off a 63 lb. tape player/recorder to the east coast.

United Parcel Service packed it themselves and charged me for insurance coverage.

I was notified that it arrived yesterday damaged beyond repair and unplayable. So sad as it was in pristine condition had many years of great service yet to offer.

What has been your experience in a situation like this? I've not been thro' this before so am seeking constructive guidance.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 5 Mar 2012 2:49 am

Skip I had this happen to an amp shipment. I called UPS they investigated a couple of days and paid me for the amp. Couldn't ask for beter. cc

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 5 Mar 2012 3:10 am

Ray, I'll never ship anything by UPS again!... A couple of years ago I shipped a Gibson Les Paul to my grandson in California for his birthday. It arrived out there with the headstock broken off... I arranged for a repairman I knew in Orange County to fix it but UPS said they wanted to pick it up and inspect the guitar and they'd return it. Well they picked it up and in about a week the damn thing was returned to my home in Virginia with the damage still intact. To make a long story short, I had it repaired by a local guitar tech and re-shipped it back to SoCal via Parcel Post and it arrived intact and for almost half the money it cost to send it UPS in the first place. I never got a refund for the first shipment from them either.........JH in Va.

Larry Jamieson · Post by **Larry Jamieson** » 5 Mar 2012 5:00 am

Ray, Keep after them and be persistent and you will at least get paid for the damage. They make it very difficult, a lot of people give up. You have to fill out forms and jump through hoops, but eventually they will pay if you keep after them.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 5 Mar 2012 5:38 am

Sorry to hear about that Ray, Larry is correct. You have to be persistent. They sometimes make it difficult for you hoping you will just drop the claim. In one of my cases, they kept changing the reason for denying the claim until there was not much recourse.

It's too bad the item cannot be replaced, but at least perhaps you can recover the insured value. Good Luck.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 5 Mar 2012 6:47 am

$:\$ I must disagree ,bout 3 years ago I built my youngest son a computer ,had UPS(hit) pack it and ship it. When it got to my son it had had a forklift tang stuck thru one side and then ran over, prolly by the same lift (it actually still had tire prints on it!). My son took it too the local UPS store in Houston and they told him it had been improperly packed (by UPS!!) and sorry take yer crap ,no insurance payment, and beat it! I raised holy hell with UPS on the phone, email, and sent them photos before and after, I got the same results!! I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN....Stormy....aka :still pissed in the Gila Wilderness

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 5 Mar 2012 9:20 am

Ray, I have had similar experience with both UPS and FedEx, both times told that the goods were improperly packed (one package was in original factory packing) and was unable to get any compensation at all from either. USPS seems to be the only dependable shipping service these days.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 5 Mar 2012 12:10 pm

First, the USPS wasn't used, support your United States Post Office.
Second, a sender should always do their own packing.
Third, here's what can happen when you just hand the post office an unpacked/unprotected item to ship, like this big Garnet amp, scary but... no problemo. http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squawk- ... -fail.html

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Mar 2012 2:54 pm

told that the goods were improperly packed (one package was in original factory packing)

Carriers often will argue (and factories will often tell you) that "factory packaging" is not good enough for single-item shipments. Items that are shipped from a factory are almost always "palletized", which minimizes damage because bulk shipments will not go through a mechanized sorter, and will not be processed (thrown/tossed) individually by careless hands.

Safe packaging for guitars and amps would be a minimum of 3" of soft foam all around the outside, with a double layer of 200 lb cardboard covering that, and taped on all seams and corners. Even then, if an item is dropped, internal components (tubes, speakers, pickups, and chassis) may suffer damage if they are not properly mounted or supported.

When shipping large, heavy items, avoid styrofoam or any other rigid product, since they transmit almost 100% of any shocks directly to the item. Likewise, styrofoam peanuts and "air bags" are almost useless, as they can settle or shift, and leave an item with reduced or no protection on one side.

I'm sorry for Ray (or anyone else) who has this problem. Hopefully, they will honor a claim. But it's often far easier to take the extra time and spend the money to pack "better than necessary". As my old man used to tell me..."No one cares as much for your stuff as you do."

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 5 Mar 2012 4:18 pm

$:\$ I guess I was uninformed as to having to have pc shipped in a friggin ammo box! What kinda moronic crap is it when u pay $ to have the people employed by the carrier to have it "professionally" packed and they still reject it as being improperly packaged? Can u spell "employee training" or maybe money grubbing c*** s****** cause it is more profitable....hmmm u be the judge...Stormy

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 5 Mar 2012 4:48 pm

I have always had good results with shipping even with the United States Postal Servic (but be sure they write down on the insurance that you're not one of those folks who watch Fox News)

Tommy Wayne · Post by **Tommy Wayne** » 5 Mar 2012 10:10 pm

Hello Ray,
I'm sorry to hear this familier tale. When I moved to Vegas from the east coast 15 yrs ago I shipped an Apple computer monitor in it's original carton via UPS. It arrived with an obvious puncture by a forklift blade which ruined the screen. You MUST keep the item and the packing material unaltered for UPS to inspect but should, as I did, be able to collect on your claim. Do not give up!
Let us know,
Tommy Wayne

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 5 Mar 2012 11:27 pm

If UPS packed and shipped it, that makes THEM--not you--the shipper of record and thus fully responsible. (What a laugh--a shipper being even minimally responsible. Read on...)

USPS seems to be the only dependable shipping service these days.

With all due respect to Mr. Grafe, I absolutely disagree--USPS damaged a $3200 Martin (EX cond HD-40MK, near new in ohsc), inflicting $1800 damage (according to a luthier at the destination across the continent.) And they never had the slightest intention of paying the insurance claim.

USPS has been using all the "mortgage-modification" dodges notoriously characteristic of the robo-signing banks. A long string of requests for "missing" forms, denial, denial, denial of appeal, dodge, dodge. No wonder they're going bankrupt--good riddance and well-earned. (Two more words, USPS: the second of which is "you.")

I was a defender like Dave until the Martin incident, having written off Brown and Purple-Orange/Green long ago for criminal carelessness and blatant irresponsibility.

Recently, a friend made a very nice offer on a guitar I was selling elsewhere. I was terrified, but I sent it UPS Ground to accommodate his generosity. But I got a fairly pristine Taylor box and went and bought a 4x8' sheet of hard foam insulation to make interior walls with. Ironically, while my home DSL service was down, I got the UPS shipment on its way, but missed his email saying hold up--that he'd be driving down from N. Cal. to S. Cal in a few weeks--no shipping necessary.

I dodged a bullet on that one, but USPS, UPS and FedEx are hitting more and more targets lately--and inflicting more devastating casualties. They will do ANYTHING to duck responsibility for their incompetence and carelessness.

I'm just about played out on my $1800 damage claim--I have no fight left. When you're big, monolithic, institutional and answer to no higher authority, you can stomp all the little people you want with utter impunity. USPS, FedEx and UPS are all guilty on multiple counts.

Makes a pointy-headed skeptic want to believe in hell.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 6 Mar 2012 6:53 am

$:\$ Bingo, Ben and that folks is the crux of the matter....well put Ben.....Stormy

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 6 Mar 2012 6:09 pm

I bought an amp from Bobbe, when it arrived I emailed him that it was in great shape and working............he told me that they ship them in pieces and UPS shakes them together.

Doug Garrick · Post by **Doug Garrick** » 6 Mar 2012 6:50 pm

Walked into our bass player's music store a while back and he was there with the owner of these. He packaged and shipped them to her sister. They're family instruments from her father and she sent them to her sister. This how her sister got them and she did the right thing and didn't accept them. The top one is an old Gibson and the bottom one a Alvarez. One of the major shippers but I don't remember which one.

David Zornes · Post by **David Zornes** » 6 Mar 2012 6:57 pm

Remember the guy from Fed Ex who tossed the expensive T.V. across the fence? Did he start working for UPS?

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