Ever have a bad recording session?

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 1 Mar 2012 1:57 pm

I always love it when the producer says to you "that was great--play it one more time exactly the same, but different..."

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 1 Mar 2012 4:27 pm

Roger,Gilbert O'Sullivan is alive and well and living in Hendersonville,TN...he must be a steel guitar player!...just kidding...but he does live here...my neighbor takes care of his lawn.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 1 Mar 2012 5:05 pm

I didn't realise that, Steve.

Many years ago he was involved in a huge lawsuit against Gordon Mills and MAM Records and I heard that he 'won' about £7 million (really his money to begin with!) I should imagine that, despite having been out of the spotlight for so long, he can still live anywhere he wants. He must still be getting residuals from radio plays on his hits, too.

They'd pay for his lawn to be trimmed!

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 1 Mar 2012 5:54 pm

I believe Gilbert is in pretty good shape,Roger...Seems like I saw a video of that song and Big Jim Sullivan was playing the gut string solo...the Mills connection would explain that I guess...great to hear from you,Roger!

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 1 Mar 2012 5:54 pm

...duplicate post...

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 1 Mar 2012 6:06 pm

Yes, Steve - Jim was Gordon's first-call player then, although I did at least one track with TJ when Jim was elsewhere!

I really enjoyed Gilbert's work - 'Alone Again....' is a fine song in my opinion.

I recall a conversation with him during which he told us of the time he was in LA doing the Dean Martin Show for television. He'd been anticipating meeting Martin - one of his biggest heroes - ever since the job was booked yet, once he got there, Dean didn't even pass the time of day with him and virtually cut him dead (this despite the fact that they somehow sang a song together for the show!) I felt a little sorry for him as he was, in my experience anyway, a far-from assertive personality and may have been a little shy.

Ray was always hanging around the studio at 'Little Rhondda' (Gordon's house); all I can remember was a garage full of Rolls-Royces! All that real estate AND a private zoo! One day as we left after a session our other guitarist, Billy Bremner, called out to the recording engineer:

"Tell Gordon I hope everything works out for him....."

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 1 Mar 2012 7:14 pm

Roger Rettig wrote:Yes, Steve - Jim was Gordon's first-call player then, although I did at least one track with TJ when Jim was elsewhere!

I really enjoyed Gilbert's work - 'Alone Again....' is a fine song in my opinion.

I recall a conversation with him during which he told us of the time he was in LA doing the Dean Martin Show for television. He'd been anticipating meeting Martin - one of his biggest heroes - ever since the job was booked yet, once he got there, Dean didn't even pass the time of day with him and virtually cut him dead (this despite the fact that they somehow sang a song together for the show!) I felt a little sorry for him as he was, in my experience anyway, a far-from assertive personality and may have been a little shy.

Ray was always hanging around the studio at 'Little Rhondda' (Gordon's house); all I can remember was a garage full of Rolls-Royces! All that real estate AND a private zoo! One day as we left after a session our other guitarist, Billy Bremner, called out to the recording engineer:

"Tell Gordon I hope everything works out for him....."

Alone Again, Naturally really is a beautiful song. Perhaps the saddest song ever on the Pop charts.

Doug Jones · Post by **Doug Jones** » 1 Mar 2012 8:52 pm

I was called in to do a Muzak type of session for 2 songs back in 1986 or so. I had visions of hearing my efforts on an elevator or something. I can't remember the cuts, but I do remember the producer questioning my tuning and pitch. This was back in the days of the Korg WT-10 tuner and Jeff Newman's tempered tuning. I thought it sounded OK, but he didn't! Next thing I know I was explaining how the all-pull guitar was tuned and before I knew it he wanted to start spinning the tuning wrench until he thought it sounded in tune! It got to be a train wreck and I stopped him and told him I didn't think I was going to be able to do the job he wanted. I packed it up; he gave me $40 for my trouble and have never forgotten it since.

Only one other time did I have to back out of a session. It was for a Mexican restaurant radio commercial and the producer wanted me to play a tele sounding twin to my track. When I suggested he just find a tele player he told me to pack it up! At least I got paid the time I was there.

Other than those, I've been pretty lucky as a session player way out here in the great Pacific NW.

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 1 Mar 2012 9:26 pm

My pet peeve is the singer/songwriter with a home studio. i don't think I've ever done one of those sessions that went smoothly. There's always equipment issues; distortion, hum, inability to punch, etc. However, I will say that they're always appreciative, even if i think it's a weak performance.

Speaking of recording, one really appreciates how good the pros are after doing a session. There's so many nuances that go into being a top notch session player such as:
- knowing where the out of tune notes are on the steel and subtly slanting the bar when needed, and generally playing in tune to keyboards and guitars in keys like F
- getting the low notes to sound as evenly as the high notes
- playing in perfect time
- getting great tone in varied situations
- using the volume pedal (always a problem in the studio)
- and of course coming up with cool things to play and executing them most every time
- executing harmonics without string noise
- getting good sustain

Is that a good start?

Joe

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 2 Mar 2012 2:36 am

To answer the OP question.. YES!!.. There have been times when I walked in, nailed on the first run through, and was packed up, paid, and down the road in a half hour.. most of the time, I am sweating, squiggling around, nothing is going right, I am having problems with intonation, time, missing notes, sqeaks and squigets,rattles, volume pedal noise.. I have had monumental problems with little 3 chord tunes you couln't begin to imagine..
Generally speaking, I am a very poor studio player, often not worth the money I was paid... bob

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 2 Mar 2012 6:49 am

Bob Carlucci wrote:... Generally speaking, I am a very poor studio player, often not worth the money I was paid...

Thus spake the man from Candor.

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 2 Mar 2012 8:31 am

Jim, you're killing me! How's it going buddy?

Joe

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 Mar 2012 8:40 am

Jim Cohen wrote:
Bob Carlucci wrote:... Generally speaking, I am a very poor studio player, often not worth the money I was paid...
Thus spake the man from Candor.

At least he's not from Gondor! Or worse yet, Mordor.

I had another session in a NYC studio for a BBC children's program that was rough because of a terrible 60 cycle hum that was coming from my Emmons and couldn't be eliminated, no matter what we tried. This hum was previously undetectable. What a drag. That kind of stuff hurts your reputation.

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 2 Mar 2012 9:29 am

Mike, always bring a lifter with you. For those unaware, that's a $1.29 rubber two prong plug that you plug your three prong into and it then plugs into the wall. All I can say is that it's miraculous how many times that has cured hum in studios who swore that hum was never a problem, yet we were getting it. I have no idea why this works so well, but it's saved sessions for me.

Joe

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 2 Mar 2012 9:54 am

Years ago, I did some work for a film composer who worked on "lo-budget" non-union things. At that time, there were "alternative studios", up north, where they would look at your budget and tell you that you could get, 2 violins, a cello, a kazoo, a piano, a cowbell and a what-not, for that amount.

I was asked to come in and play resos to the tracks he brought back. I've never been known for playing in tune, but the players on his tracks were so out of tune that I had to ask who he wanted me to play in tune with, and they ducked the other guys.

Way back, when I first started playing on film scores, I would be given a score to read and I was expected to watch the screen for cues, in the cans I had their score in my left ear, what I'm playing in my right ear, click and dialog in the center and I have to look at the top of my guitar to see what I'm planning on playing.

Or, I would be told to keep it neutral around F# and G#, when you see the ____ on the screen, find your way in. When you see the ocean (on the screen) find your way out and stay away from the dialog. Typically I would have 2 takes to justify my being there.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 2 Mar 2012 9:59 am

For those unaware, that's a $1.29 rubber two prong plug that you plug your three prong into and it then plugs into the wall. All I can say is that it's miraculous how many times that has cured hum in studios who swore that hum was never a problem, yet we were getting it. I have no idea why this works so well, but it's saved sessions for me.

It breaks the ground loop. I always carried several with me because I had a complicated rack set up. The worst times were at studios where they had a lot of "computer things" and there was RF all over the place. I had to switch out my single coils for EMG pickups. I would watch George, the guitar player, walk all over the rooms, with his guitar and headphones, looking for the spot where his guitar hummed the least.

Roger Miller · Post by **Roger Miller** » 3 Mar 2012 10:51 am

Was working hard one night and the drummer wanted to run up to Hardees 3 blocks away, showed back up 3 hours later, his parts were replaced. Another time we sent the drummer to get us beer, and while he was gone, we replaced his parts also. How about 4 hours for a 30 second commercial, damn I hate jazz players.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 3 Mar 2012 3:46 pm

Yeah, the project studio scenario where one is required to play to the unresolved latency of the system...OY! Do-able but a bit of a Buzzkill.

Also being asked to play to a track that was recorded in free time.

Play an intro with no click.

"Sounds too steely"...

Sometimes a "producer" want to use the steel as a tone generator, and micro manage every note, and will then criticize the lack of emotive playing.

It goes on and on. Plenty of excuses to not be happy.

Sometimes it's really hard.

I keep my head down, redouble my efforts, and keep my mouth shut, and my mind open.

If I'm in over my head, I admit it.

I always get paid. In 35 years, I've never had a dissatisfied client.

I love my job. Sometimes more than others, but ever grateful.

Best,
JW

billy tam · Post by **billy tam** » 3 Mar 2012 7:25 pm

I am not a heavily recorded steeler but have a few good and bad experiences to relate. First the bad. I used to get semi regular work at a local studio for primarily demo sessions. The owner/engineer/keyboardist/solo artist always wanted to "sample" my work. I always got paid although weakly but as the months went by the calls were fewer and farther between. Go figure. Another studio wanted me to duplicate steel parts exactly as done with a team of Nashville players for a new artist who wanted to use those tracks without permission. Not fun. On the good side songwriter/artist/producer John D. Loudermilk lived in this area at the time and brought our band to Studio in the Country to do several tracks he was pitching at the time. I learned more about recording, producing, and music in general that day in a few hours than I had in many years.
Thanks,
Billy

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 4 Mar 2012 4:16 am

First of all, "me no session player". However, years ago I got a call for a local artist-to-be who wanted a steel on a demo. I went in, setup steel, tuned up, got amp adjusted, etc. I listened to the song once through the monitors as the producer pointed out where, what, and how much steel he wanted. Recording begins. I do my thing. Producer says, "hey, that was great. Just what I wanted". Ten seconds later I hear the voice from the recording booth -"Uh, looks like something happened here. I did'nt get any of that. Can we do it over?" I said to myself - "self, what did I do? I have no idea exactly what I did." We did about three more takes, but I never came close to what I first did. Well, it just shows to go 'ya. Go home, drink beer, forget it!

Peter Nylund · Post by **Peter Nylund** » 4 Mar 2012 7:16 am

Oh yes, I'm guilty of a few thousand bad sessions

Will Hart · Post by **Will Hart** » 5 Mar 2012 1:41 pm

Got a call to do a few cuts for a female artist that was out of the country realm, but I really liked the songs. One reso and one on lap steel. I knew the producer wanted sparse tasteful playing, but he encouraged me to be creative

I was really into the lap steel song. It was a beautiful piece of songs-mithing. I worked the song from 5 different directions before I finally came up with fills and a break I was happy with while practicing at home with the scratch track. Spent a good 20hrs on the song

We had an hour due to the studios heavy schedule for the takes.

I punched out the reso tracks and got ready for the lap steel.

I nailed the first cut. I was jazzed and looked up to the sound booth. The producer says, " Hey that was nice, but lets give it another go and just do that one riff that you did in the first verse through the whole song". It was a stunner. I just wanted to get up and walk around for a minute and get my bearings, but we had to press on; time was running out.

Of course sometimes your vision and the producers are different, and when the CD came out the lap steel gave the open sustained slides and of course the one riff that the producer had in mind. Great experience.

Mark Wayne · Post by **Mark Wayne** » 5 Mar 2012 9:58 pm

Just spent 3 hours trying to do a dobro part in the studio...to no avail. Thanks for making this post - it gave a chance to cry on a shoulder

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 6 Mar 2012 10:01 am

As someone posted before... latency issues..

I did a session a while back and it was a QUICK... do three songs in one day thing...

Of course I track last.. but the engineer couldn't resolve the latency issue... so I had to literally try to anticipate the changes just a little bit off... wow.. what a nightmare...

Luckily (an obviously) it was a pretty low budget thing... I got paid fine for it.. I just upped the vibrato and volume swells a bunch... I guess I should be thankful I wasn't playing a fretted instrument.

Andrew Kilinski · Post by **Andrew Kilinski** » 6 Mar 2012 2:03 pm

I just had a recording session go somewhat bad on me, or maybe it was me to begin with, but i'm not sure. I played pedal steel on 2 songs, with a couple guitar tracks, bass, and drums making up the track I was playing over. Nice studio, good engineer, etc.

I tuned to SE9 on my stroboflip, we began tracking, and we were, pretty efficiently, done in couple takes for each tune. Everything sounded okay to my ears, but definitely in tune. I'm not always confident about my playing, but I do have good ears.

Anyhow, I just found out that my tracks ended up being out of tune, and were re-cut last weekend by another player (granted, that player is a nashville pro so I can't feel too bad about it).

What i'm wondering now though, is did I track too early in the process, since vocals, piano and acoustic guitars were later added to the tracks? Could the tempered setting I used to tune my steel have gone sour in the mix as more instruments were layered in? I didn't get to hear how the final track sounded, but I'm pretty disappointed that the work I put in to play the parts is gone. Oh well. At the very least i'd like to not repeat my mistakes next time I record.

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