P/P or Le Grande III

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 23 Mar 2002 8:36 am

I have experience with the P/P Emmons only. For those who have experience with the Le Grande III and the P/P, which would you prefer to play at a gig, cost being no object?

Thanks in advance, Rick

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 Mar 2002 10:34 am

rick,
i have two p/p's and a zum...which is very similar to a legrand...i prefer the zum at gigs because it is much easier to tune in the heat of battle! however, i guess if you've gigged for years with p/p's, this may not be a problem.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 23 Mar 2002 12:19 pm

I don't find it any easier to tune the all-pull vs. the P/P and the P/P will sound better and probably stay in tune better. I just traded a Legrande for a P/P and the Legrande may play a tad better and only a tad the P/P has the tone all over it. If I ever get another all-pull I'll try something else. The Legrande is OK but I'll be trying a Carter or a Zum next trip. The best sounding all-pull I've played for a while was a 60's Sho-Bud. Honestly I never seen anything wrong with the tone of those guitars or the looks but then look who designed and built them. It's the older ones that have the best tone IMO.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 23 Mar 2002 2:16 pm

I'll have to agree with you on that , Frank.
I had one of those old Sho-Buds S10 with 5/5 it had the great sound. I sold it to get a U12, sorry I did.....al

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 23 Mar 2002 7:32 pm

I have 2 LeGrande III's and a totally restored lacquer body push pull. Although the push pull has the best sound, the guitar I use to play out with is my Zoom as both LeGrande III's are in their cases. Sorry, I just prefer the Zoom over the LeGrande III's but the P/P kicks all their butts. Obviously I'm not filling in for my son tonight so I'm playing my Zoom at home as we speak.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 23 Mar 2002 11:06 pm

It's Emmons Push Pull for all occasions! IMHO

Hal Higgins · Post by **Hal Higgins** » 2 Apr 2002 6:31 pm

For the life of me guys, I can't hear a great deal of difference in the sound of the P/P and the LeGrande guitars. They are made of the exact same materials (the only exception being the difference between a mica body and a maple body). Play-ability-wise, however, I would have to say that the Legrande has it all over a P/P. If a stock pickup is put on a P/P and a Legrande (all pull, is what we're talking about, right) if what you play through is set exactly the same for each guitar, the only difference is going to be in how each guitar handles (or plays) My opinion after having played both.....Love My Emmons...HAL[This message was edited by Hal Higgins on 02 April 2002 at 06:32 PM.]

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 2 Apr 2002 6:55 pm

I tweaked on my LeGrande's changers and reinstalled the single coil Emmons pickups in it. Now I would nearly bet that you can't tell the difference in sound between it and my P/P. But the P/P has a "Feel" to it that the LeGrande just isn't capable of. I'm as comfortable with either guitar.

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 2 Apr 2002 8:48 pm

Boys, you gotta put batteries in those Beltone's! Either that or you just have a bad sounding push/pull. My push/pull plays easier than either LeGrande III and there is NO amount of tweaking that's going to make either one sound like my push/pull. Sorry, they just ain't the same!

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 3 Apr 2002 7:14 pm

Maybe its YOUR Legrandes Mike.

I said I would NEARLY bet you couldn't tell the difference. But I do agree with you. They aren't the same. The Push Pull is definitely a better playing and feeling guitar in my Opinion.

bill dearmore · Post by **bill dearmore** » 3 Apr 2002 8:29 pm

Hi Gang, I truly love Emmons guitars- I've owned three LeGrands, II,II, and III and the o'le PP I got in the early 70's which I still have! ( the only one I still have)

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 3 Apr 2002 9:28 pm

Maybe its YOUR Legrandes Mike

......and I thought it was just time to change the battery in my Beltone!

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 3 Apr 2002 10:02 pm

I don't get it about a P/P being harder to tune. The 3rd might go a little flat if it's been on there for less than a gig, and the 6th (plain) might go a little sharp early in the night, but barring any temperature/wind/beer spillage variables mine stays right where I put it for nights at a time. I don't even check it with my tuner but every other gig or so. I guess the secret is to have it set up correctly in the first place, and then it tunes and plays like Jack the Bear.

C#

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 3 Apr 2002 10:11 pm

...and as Dave Robbins pointed out in an earlier post, you have to play it for a few minutes after you first set it up at a gig and it will automatically get in tune on its own. Don't try to tune until you've played it a little.

C#

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 8 Apr 2002 5:04 pm

Hey guys, your comments on the p/p verses the Legrand are verrrry interesting. Just wanted to add my two cents worth. I have one of the best sounding Legrands I have ever heard and so say all my picking friends around here. I recently purchased a p/p, ment condition, I believe an 82 model. Since then my Legrand hasn't been out of the case. Even though the p/p has harder pedals compared to the feather like touch of my Legrand, I can get around on it much truer and faster and don't know why. Now all my picking buddies say the p/p sounds the best. They are truley great guitars.

Henry

Danny Bentley · Post by **Danny Bentley** » 11 Apr 2002 8:29 pm

Hey Mike, how does the zoom compare to the JCH?

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 11 Apr 2002 9:06 pm

Hey Danny, the Zoom kicks butt since I put the new pickups in it. Those are the pickups I'm having put in my JCH that is now in the process of being built. I haven't put them in my SD-10 JCH but I know it would sweeten the sound and take that razor sharp harshness out of it as it has a 710 in it. Ask Dr. Bob about the Zoom, he has to listen to it about 5 times a day, I don't give him a choice!

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 12 Apr 2002 7:33 am

I found the 710 to be a good pickup for my Sho Bud, which was kind of dull sounding. It really brightened up the sound, and made it sound much more modern. I now have a push pull with an E66 on E9 and the Emmons p/u on C6. To my ears the E66 sounds kind of lame next to the Emmons. I don't mind the noise all that much. When I got this Emmons I knew within 5 seconds that this was the sound I had been looking for .The XR 16 sounds interesting. I'd like to hear more about that one.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Apr 2002 9:54 am

I'm rather confused!

The Big E just played with Johnney Bush and what do you think he dragged out of the closet. A P/P? No Way! He grabbed his LaGrande III. I would think this should tell us something. I'm sticking with Buddy!
Uff-Da!

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 12 Apr 2002 11:24 am

Maybe he didn't want to change old strings on a p/p? I've been lazy before, hmmm, old strings on the Sho-Bud, heck, I don't feel like changing them, I'm using the Carter tonight! and off I go to the gig!

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 12 Apr 2002 2:10 pm

I've owned 5 p/p guitars, 2 72's, 2 71's, and now a 66 and they all sounded great, a little different but all had that distinctive Emmons sound. I had a Derby for only 6 months and traded it for a P/P because of the tone. Great looking guitar and great playing but the tone wasn't there. I like the anti-tuning device on the Legrande III but I wouldn't go out and buy one just because it has that on it. I think too many people spend more time tuning than they do playing. Most of the best stuff I've ever heard recorded was on a guitar that didn't have that on it and I couldn't tell it so I don't think that's a factor.
Some people hear a little better than others or maybe it's a little different but for me the P/P's have it all over everything else. I have heard a few and only a few Zums that I thought had the brightness and fullness I'd heard on the P/P but I didn't get to hear them side by side so I may have been wrong. 3 years ago I traded a great sounding 72 Emmons P/P thinking I wanted an all-pull and finally 6 guitars later and a lot of money ( 3 all-pulls and 3 P/P's) I'm back to an Emmons P/P because of the tone. It was an expensive lesson and the thing about it is all the time I owned that 72 I thought I had a great sounding guitar and everyone would tell me how great it sounded and played and I traded it off thinking an all-pull would be a good replacement. It's like a new car, the new wears off in about 3 payments and then reality sets in. I may experiment with another guitar down the road but I'll play it first and the P/P's I have now are staying right where they are. I learned this lesson the hard way.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 12 Apr 2002 8:46 pm

Never having owned a push/pull Emmons, I'm not as familiar with them as some of you are. So, I have a question regarding them.

To those of you familiar with them, do you think you can get the classic push/pull sound out of an S10 single wide body, or do you think it's more of a D10 kind of thing? I know the extra mass of the body, as well as the vibration of the strings on the C6th neck will make some difference, but I'm talking about the overall "famous" push/pull tone.

Lem

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 12 Apr 2002 9:06 pm

My first push pull was a wide body S 10, and it sounded good. I recently sold it to get a D 10 p/p and to be honest with you, I don't find lot of difference in sound between the two. Both sound real pleasing to the ear.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Apr 2002 9:23 pm

Lem, I have friends with S10 push-pulls. They sound just like the D10's. Classic overtones with growl and bite. If it wasn't for my 72 Sho-Bud I'd still have one. Someday I'm going to buy another. Most modern all
pulls aren't even it the ball park for that kind of tone.

Rusty Hurse · Post by **Rusty Hurse** » 12 Apr 2002 11:24 pm

Well guys I have to tell you that yes the Emmons push pull guitars are great and I played them for 33 years. I still have a real" guud unn" for sentimental purposes.The but to me the best sounding all pull guitar for the push pull tone is still the Derby.Now you have to ask yourself and think how many people that were and are "die hard " push pull players are now playing a DERBY.I know Frank Estes had one and is back playing a push pull and that is fine he likes it.If you play a Derby through the right amp and have the right hand to do it and the left hand too! You will be amazed!!There are alot of the guys playing them so you need to give that a thought too.