Queston for lower 6th string G# two step to E. (E9)

Marcel Parijs · Post by **Marcel Parijs** » 11 Feb 2012 3:51 am

Hello,

I want to try to lower 6th string G# two step to E.at one of my knee levers.
Has anyone experience with this. Wich combination, licks, clips, records, etc..

Regards,

Marcel Parijs

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2012 4:01 am

I've never heard of anyone doing that. I kinda doubt that you will get the changer to move that far. I sometimes have problems reaching F#. From G# down to E is a HUGE move.
I hope you use a .020 because I doubt a .022 stands a chance.

Tim Miller · Post by **Tim Miller** » 11 Feb 2012 6:27 am

Marcel,

Paul Franklin uses this drop on one of his steels.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... b7af295faf

steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/002508.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZ0BY_V ... re=related

I've been playing around with it, and while fun, I'm not convinced there isn't something more useful.

Tim

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 11 Feb 2012 7:42 am

I had it on a vertical on several different guitars. Just wasn't using it enough to keep it but its a really cool sound.. Paul used it on a George Strait cut of "My lifes been Grand", really good..
Hook

Dan Galysh · Post by **Dan Galysh** » 11 Feb 2012 9:03 am

The change definitely has a "wow" factor upon hearing it and displays the mechanical capabilities of our instrument. I just have never found a musical use for it. I worked with a singer who had a song that had that change on the record, but I never added it though.

Tim Miller · Post by **Tim Miller** » 11 Feb 2012 9:57 am

I'm actually wondering if anyone has managed to put a successful feel stop at the F# - I think that would make the difference in practicality. Anybody do that?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 11 Feb 2012 10:29 am

How about if you raise 1 a whole tone, 2 a half and lower 6 2 full tones, plus the pull on the C neck....doesn't that make the lever really stiff?

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 11 Feb 2012 10:41 am

My MSA Legend handles this change (2 whole tone lower, G# to E)) and I had it on there for a few months. I ditched it and the popular G# to F# in favor of raising the 7th string a whole tone which I believe has far more uses. I also have kept the G# to B change on the 6th string and use it a lot.

http://gregcutshaw.com/Msa/Copedant.html

Greg

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2012 11:37 am

Tim Miller wrote:I'm actually wondering if anyone has managed to put a successful feel stop at the F# - I think that would make the difference in practicality. Anybody do that?

Tim, I don't think the old-school half-stop like Michael Yahl (and probably lotsa other folks too) sells would have a lick of problem with that.
I even bet it'd install on that push-pull of yours

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 11 Feb 2012 1:16 pm

Marcel, I tried exactly that by making an extra long bellcrank.
You can hear a rough test-recording here.
I took it off because the bellcrank was too long for the case and I did not have the time to make a gear-down set-up.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2012 2:03 pm

Peter, you could use a second bellcrank/shaft to provide extra travel.
Use longest hole on the one on the knee lever, going to the shortest hole on a second crank, and the longest hole on the second crank pulls the finger.
Easiest on round-shafted guitars, where you could leave the slave crank loose on an uninvolved axle, but you could do it on about any guitar

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 11 Feb 2012 2:09 pm

I use a .022PL string and it goes 4 frets down just fine. If your using a .022 wound it might be a lot harder to do.

Greg

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 11 Feb 2012 5:45 pm

My Mullen g 2 will do it but i can cheat with a little practice it can be done very close to what Paul did .i do the 6th whole lower from the raised b pedal and just as the 6th starts to fade out, i pick the 8 then 6th and raise it back up to raised 6th with b pedal,play with it and you get what i did.

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 11 Feb 2012 10:32 pm

Yes Lane, that is what I meant with a "gear-down".

That particular guitar had hex-shafts unfortunately.
But thanks for the explanation. That will definately help others if they want to try it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Feb 2012 9:31 am

If you have hex shafts, you can still do it, but you'll need another shaft dedicated for the gear-up. Knee lever shaft, highest hole (if you use comb-style bellcranks, one end will have to face backwards) to gear-up shaft, lowest hole. Another pullrod (possibly on the same bellcrank, or you could offset the master/primary rod to keep it out of the way of the B pedal, but slave/secondary will have to line up with 6th string, of course) from highest hole, secondary/gear-up shaft to the lower finger.

Personally, the change doesn't sound that dang useful, but I have to admit I've never played it

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 12 Feb 2012 9:41 am

I have G#'s to G's on a lever, and sometimes I tune it to do the 6th string G#>E.
That is a fun change that just happens to work easily on my Sierra S12U.
I sounds cool.
I first learned it from Jonathan Cullifer, who was playing a new Franklin at a Convention a few years back.
I think I heard it was originaly used on a specific hit song by PF.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 12 Feb 2012 11:06 am

You can get a similar effect if you have your 7th string F# raised to G# and lowered to E. I had a guitar set up like that once.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 12 Feb 2012 11:15 am

b0b, that sounds like a good alternative. May give that a try (as soon as I can get another steel).

Marcel Parijs · Post by **Marcel Parijs** » 14 Feb 2012 9:37 am

Thanks Guys for the reactions.

I change this yesterday on my LKL2. Sounds great. I must get used it a little bit. Only I hope I don´t break this string earlyer. It´s also raised 1.5 tone.
Did anyone now if Tommy White use this string to lower 2 tones?

Marcel

Ryan Barwin · Post by **Ryan Barwin** » 15 Feb 2012 12:30 pm

Pete Burak wrote:I think I heard it was originaly used on a specific hit song by PF.

This one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QQk6WC2p4

I may be wrong, but I was told that Paul has his LKV set up with rods for both the G# to E lower and G# to B raise, so he can switch between these two changes without flipping the guitar over or changing any rods.

With a plain string, it's not nearly as long a pull as you'd expect, especially with a .020p, like Paul's uses. I've tried the change on my Emmons and Excel guitars with a .022p...both can handle it just fine and I never broke a string. I set it up on my LKV, and split it with the B pedal to get an F#.

b0b wrote:You can get a similar effect if you have your 7th string F# raised to G# and lowered to E. I had a guitar set up like that once.

With the 6th string G# to E lower, you can move seamlessly from the E (with the LKV) to A (with the B pedal). You also get a pretty different sound because it's a plain string. Though having both changes separately on the 7th string is probably a lot more useful.

As fun as it is, it's not particularly useful to me, so I put the B to Bb lowers back on the LKV after about a month.

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Queston for lower 6th string G# two step to E. (E9)

Queston for lower 6th string G# two step to E. (E9)

lower 6 to e