black box or free loader

Mike Bowles · From: Princeton, West Virginia, USA

which would be better with a nv112 and nv1000 a black box or a freeloader
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Mike Bowles

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Can't sp[eak to the latter but Brad Sarno's Black Box is a great piece and uis used by many top touring players.

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

I own both. The FreeLoader is a nice unit. It sounds good, very portable and takes up a lot less space. However, I prefer the sound of the Black Box better, and that's what I use primarily.
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J.R. Marlowe
Life has many choices. Eternity has TWO. I choose Heaven.
Black '95 Zumsteel SD10, 4+5;Black Mullen RP SD10, 4+5
NRA Life member

Mike Bowles · From: Princeton, West Virginia, USA

thanks guys i think i might want to try a black box does it tame the harshness down any?
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Mike Bowles

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

It's hard for me to define exactly what it does, but I found out after using it a while, I don't leave home without it. I would call it a 'glorified matchbox' with a tube that gives warmth to the tone. So, yes, I guess you could say it tames the harshness.
I highly recommend the Black Box. Besides, Brad Sarno is a great guy and stands behind his product.
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J.R. Marlowe
Life has many choices. Eternity has TWO. I choose Heaven.
Black '95 Zumsteel SD10, 4+5;Black Mullen RP SD10, 4+5
NRA Life member

Mike Bowles · From: Princeton, West Virginia, USA

thanks james im gonna do some checking into this
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Mike Bowles

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

Note: both products are from Brad Sarno.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Black Box...

B

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Brad, a question I've wondered about: What's the compatibility of the Black Box (or Freeloader) with a Hilton volume pedal?

Danny Letz · From: Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540

Hey Brad, I emailed you some more dumb questions about the Classic and that one about the Hilton pedal was one of them.

Mike Bowles · From: Princeton, West Virginia, USA

thanks guys i will be getting a bb soon im in the process of selling a deluxe rev2 pretty good amp with tele but not good with steel to my ear anyway
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Mike Bowles

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

The Black Box is really quite compatible with any volume pedal. I love it with the Hilton. The Black Box helps to dial in the perfect impedance load to get the tone you want out of your pickup as well as the vacuum tube enhancement and sweetening and "harshness removal", then the Hilton does its great job of being a volume pedal. The key is that the pickup directly sees the Black Box. What you do after the Black Box is not as critical.

B

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

Blackbox. I wish I hadn't sold mine. I do have the Freeloader and use it in the studio.

Tony

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Both units have virtually the same tone control and both are buffer/impedance matchers. So on a fundamental level, they serve the same primary functions. It's just that the tube factor in the Black Box does a whole "other" thing that the solid state Freeloader simply cant. The FreeLoader is more neutral and super clean and uncolored and very useful. But the Black Box brings into the picture this whole harmonic enhancement, treble sweetening, midrange 3D, and "feel" improving aspect. That's just what 300 volts, real good cap's and resistors and a good ol' cleanly-run vacuum tube will do for a steel pickup.

B

Jack Ritter · From: Enid, Oklahoma, USA

Definately the Black Box for me, and Brad gives the best of service if ever needed. Jack
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Zum D10 8x5,rev pre-amp, TC M300, Split 12, n-112, IZZY, Hilton vp, Geo L, BJS Hughey, Live Steel

Todd Brown · From: W. Columbia , South Carolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6TcfOpjHg
This is the only video I could find of a Black Box in action. No Demos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5g_ItO834
This is the only video I saw with a Freeloader.

With all of the talk about the Black Box and others, you'd think there would be some good samples of these products played through psg up on the web by now. There are audio samples of the Earth Drive, an awesome pedal, through psg on Brad's website. But nothing else.

Someone who has one of these, should post some demo video's. Maybe one with a Black Box through some Solid State Peavey's, or even Fender and other tube amps. Why no videos? Sad

Sorry Brad, not picking on you at all. I wish I hadn't sold my Earth Drive!!! Come on guys, how 'bout some audio samples!!! Cool

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Check out Willie Nelson's album of Cindy Walker tunes called "You Don't Know Me". I believe that's Buddy Emmons with a Black Box thru a Nashville 112 mic'd and recorded. This was months before Buddy upgraded his rig to the Revelation Preamp.

Brad

http://www.amazon.com/You-Dont-Know-Me-Walker/dp/B000E1NX4K

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I'm not sure that videos would help...the effect is quite noticeable, but somewhat subtle...the variation of recording, webifying, playing back on what? ..would mask it, I'd bet....
I set mine up with a loop switch, same steel, same everything, and going back and forth the effect was pretty clear...but not "in your face'...that is the point, really, it doesn't change the nature of what your steel is saying, just sweetens it up a bit where it matters...add the Black Box and stop having to kill your upper mids, is paraphrasing what Brad told me in an email exchange..

Todd Brown · From: W. Columbia , South Carolina

Steve, I don't buy that for a minute. Have you seen the thousands of videos on youtube of people doing demos on effects pedals and such. It doesn't matter if your using the computers crappy internal speakers or have a setup with a nice sub woofer, which is what I have. I'm sorry, but if it's that subtle, that you can't hear it working on an audio sample or a youtube video, it ain't worth $300. If you can hear a $50 line buffer working, you'd better be able to hear a $300 Black Box doing it's thing. JMHO...

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Todd, you are certainly entitled to your opinion....and I certainly could be wrong. All I know is that the effect is somewhat subtle, somewhat frequency dependent, and I wouldn't leave home without my Black Box.

All I was trying to say is that if there is a demo at some point, and it doesn't illustrate the effect in an obvious way, that doesn't mean that there isn't one...or that it isn't just lovely.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Todd, there are some things in the audio world that are better experienced in person than thru the low-fidelity filter of youtube or MP3 audio files. The SGBB can be well demonstrated via in-person A/B comparisons, but like Steve said, it's a subtle thing. It's not unlike comparing studio mic-preamps or audio transformers. When in the right setting, it's obvious. Thru the bottleneck of typical internet low fidelity, sometimes that thing isn't so clear. The Black Box is a very high fidelity, clean device. The best demonstrations are made when a player can go thru the process of dialing in an amp tone without the Black Box and then dialing in an amp tone with the Black Box. The use of the Black Box allows for and encourages a different amp/EQ setting allowing more highs to be delivered and enjoyed. A simple A/B comparison of with and without the Black Box without making the appropriate EQ adjustments would not reveal what it does very well.

The thing that happens so often is that with many rigs, people will tame or EQ away the upper mids and highs to reduce the harshness from the pickup and the steel. The Black Box greatly reduces this harsh quality and that encourages one to open up the tone a bit more, letting more highs and upper mids thru because the harshness is gone and the treble has been made much sweeter by the tube circuit.

And the other huge factor players describe is the change in "feel" as they pick the strings and coax tone and nuance out of them. That is definitely something to be experienced and not demonstrated. I do hope you get a chance to try one sometime and see for yourself if it's something you'd enjoy or not.

Brad

Todd Brown · From: W. Columbia , South Carolina

Brad, thank you for your response!! Smile

I do wanna play through one when I can get a chance. Don't know anyone close who has one. I don't even think I've seen anyone at the Saluda show playing through one. If I can finally get out to St. Louis this year, to the convention, I will definitely be stopping by.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Both...very flexible devices......

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Brad, to link a couple of topics together...
Tube magic starts to happen after 30 minutes of warm-up. Our band typically plays Opry Houses and we do a one hour show. By the time the tube magic really kicks in, we're half way through the program. Is a Freeloader a better option?

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

I sort of got the impression that the Freeloader was best for the bandstand and the BB was best for recording. Most people don't use Neumann mics at gigs (David Grisman) being an exception). : )
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless.

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