Danelectro steel

Kevin Brown · Post by **Kevin Brown** » 21 Jan 2012 2:23 pm

In away its closer to the national dynamic I think as in the Lindlay model, however im wondering if the nearest 'wing' could 'marr' the approach of the left hand at the 12th fret area, this possible problem was overcome in the dynamic by having shorter wings

A unique feature of the dano is that it has the least number of parts to function correctly, to have that limitation enforced from the outset, yet still retain a design pleasing to the eye says a lot about the creativity of Nat Daniels imo
Again on a design note notice how another designer differs in his/her approach in handling another low budget design, no curves more points, the dano curves work better for me.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 21 Jan 2012 4:04 pm

I never liked that "space age" look of the early 60s Harmony lap steel.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 22 Jan 2012 10:06 am

If you want to build a budget steel in quantity, straight edges reduce the amount of wood used. Printing the fingerboard directly onto the wood saves having to use extra wood for the fingerboard and uses little labor. A completely flat body right through to the pegboard uses less wood and has no joints. Putting the tuners at the back with simple holes for the spindles to go through obviates the need to ream out the machine head. Building a six-string instrument means you can use parts left over from regular guitars.

To try out how a tremolo arm would work on a lap steel, years ago I built this instrument in a weekend...

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 22 Jan 2012 10:41 am

Kevin Brown wrote:... The more I look at these pics the more fascinated become with the minimal approach of the design, a remarkable feat !
.

That looks like a fun project, looking forward to seeing yours completed.

Kevin Brown · Post by **Kevin Brown** » 22 Jan 2012 11:52 am

Thanks Tom an Alan, i do not underestimate your knowledge and skills. Years ago i built a strat , went on a course to do it. The result was playable, JUST, and the sound was dreadfull. In all honesty is was a complete waste of time and money, except of course that I'd got the first one out of the way would learn from my mistakes. May I quiz you both, would you suggest changing the nut and bridge string contact point to a more dense material, metal maybe ? I'm used to working with a thick , string thru pickup sound, could you enlighten me as to the effect different woods have on sound, especially solid 'logs' as here in the dano. I might also eliminate the two side bolts and put in some nice vintage cream controls, ( actually wooden ones like your Tom would look nice too ! ) Im in no rush to build this, just gonna take my time, so if anyone would care to join me, feel free to hop on board !

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 22 Jan 2012 3:56 pm

Kevin: first of all, check out the following tab, where the subject of bridges and nuts was discussed recently...
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

I see that you're from England. Whereabouts ?
When I was growing up in Birmingham, just after WW2, there were virtually no lap steels available, and no pedal steels at all, so building one's own became the only way to go. I built my first lap steel in 1963 and have been building them continually, on and off, since then, between many other different instruments. Nowadays the position in England is much different, and the prohibition on importing American instruments was lifted during the 60s. Most Americans don't realise that the reason the Merseyside groups were using what they see as exotic European instruments is that they couldn't get their hands on Fenders, Gibsons, etc. Cliff Richard was the first one to come back from the states with Fenders for the Shadows. Before that they were playing Burns models, etc.

Concerning different woods for different sounds, there are a lot of different opinions here. Certainly the wood makes a difference. As an experiment I built a steel guitar with no wood whatsoever, completely out of steel, and it didn't sound so good as wood because a lot of the overtones were eliminated. Check out the following:-

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... real+steel

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 23 Jan 2012 9:57 am

Kevin Brown wrote:... would you suggest changing the nut and bridge string contact point to a more dense material, metal maybe ? I'm used to working with a thick , string thru pickup sound, could you enlighten me as to the effect different woods have on sound, especially solid 'logs' as here in the dano. ...

Not ever playing or hearing a Danelectro steel, I'd be inclined to build it as planned and see what it sounds like. Down the road it would be easy enough to try different materials and experiment if you like.

If your end goal is that thick sounding string through type tone, then I don't think this will get you there as is. The main thing holding you back will be the pickup. Lipstick pickups can vary a lot, but in general they are moderate to low output with a nice single coil clean tone. That said though, you can always thicken it up with a pedal.

In the case of an electric solid body, woods do have an influence on the tone / sound of an instrument. I think of the different woods as kind of like the spice in the dish. Ultimately its the pickup(s) and electronics that contribute the lions share to the formula.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jan 2012 9:59 am

Tom,
I think there's a company that sells "hot" Dano pups.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 23 Jan 2012 10:09 am

John Billings wrote:Tom,
I think there's a company that sells "hot" Dano pups.

There are some overwound examples out there, but in my opinion they lose that something special that made the originals well loved. Generally speaking, when you start overwinding a pickup design, you change its resonate peak and start losing the high end of the spectrum at the risk of turning the tone to mud. A little hotter wind is not so bad, but if its a thick Valco string through tone your chasing, a lipstick pup is just not the right coil design. Much better suited of course would be Lollars string through reproduction or a short and fat coil design like a P90.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jan 2012 10:12 am

Maybe I'll have to try one in one of my three Danos. I've been curious about them. Can't be too expensive.

Kevin Brown · Post by **Kevin Brown** » 23 Jan 2012 10:41 am

Thanks Tom and folks, yes the pickup is the first thing I intend to change, i wont go the souped up lipstick route I think the design lends itself well to changing pickup installation, the wooden nut alarms me a little and might well be inserting a metal rail across the bridge at point of string contact.

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 23 Jan 2012 4:17 pm

About those lipstick pickups: I wouldn't use hotter ones, I doubt those have the "lipstick charm" (but I generally prefer low-output PUs - Gretsch Hilotrons, anyone?)
I never had a chance to try a Dano lap steel (single pickup), but with "regular" Danelectro guitars, all the magic starts to happen in the middle position of the pickup switch - unlike most other twin-pickup guitars (Telecasters, Les Pauls,...), in the middle position, both pickups are NOT connected in parallel, but IN SERIES - that gives them that distinct, ballsy, fat, yet unmuffled, bright tone that people love about Danelectro guitars.
So, if you want to build a "modern" version of a Danelectro, I'd consider using two "regular" lipstick pickups (a fair distance apart), and wiring them in series, rather than it is usually done (in series).

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 23 Jan 2012 4:37 pm

Roman Sonnleitner wrote:...all the magic starts to happen in the middle position of the pickup switch - unlike most other twin-pickup guitars (Telecasters, Les Pauls,...), in the middle position, both pickups are NOT connected in parallel, but IN SERIES - that gives them that distinct, ballsy, fat, yet unmuffled, bright tone that people love about Danelectro guitars...

Seems like you could do that with most electric guitars with a few extra switches.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 23 Jan 2012 6:01 pm

Alan Brookes wrote:... Seems like you could do that with most electric guitars with a few extra switches.

It is nice to have the fat series option in n a 2 pickup configuration like that. Its easy enough to do with a single rotary 4 way or blade switch like on a Tele or Strat. I'm kind of partial to the rotary myself.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 23 Jan 2012 8:39 pm

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... knobs.html

You can get those switches over the internet from the Stewart-McDonalds catalog (see above).

Steve Wilson · Post by **Steve Wilson** » 23 Jan 2012 9:02 pm

Here are a few lipstick options at reasonable prices. Haven't tried the lipsticks from these folks, but have had pretty good luck on regular six string guitar pickups from them. YMMV

http://store.guitarfetish.com/Pro-Tube- ... c_110.html

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 23 Jan 2012 10:39 pm

Yup, you can do the series wiring with other twin-pickup guitars, too (I've got it on all of my Teles); but it works best with lower output, bright pickups - such as Danelectro lipsticks!

I tried series wiring with P90s once, and didn't get a useable result, much too muddy; with Tele pickups it is nice eg. for a fat rock tone; but it is really magical with lipsticks - they can sound a bit thin and and bright by themselves (esp. in the bridge position), but two of them in series give a punchy, full tone that has still plenty of clarity and brightness.

Paul Alcantara · Post by **Paul Alcantara** » 26 Jan 2012 4:13 am

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, but I've owned many Danelectros over the years including the lapsteel and I don't find them in the least ugly. I Plain and functional perhaps - but no more so than a Telecaster (a guitar that I also love!)

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Jan 2012 4:29 am

"Plain and functional perhaps"

Functional,,, yes.

Kevin Brown · Post by **Kevin Brown** » 26 Jan 2012 4:30 am

I'v just got of the phone talking to Johhny Sharp at Sharptone electronics, he's well up on supro style overwound pickups and he's very keen to design something 'in keeping' with the design. I might make an initial batch of 3 after first prototype has been road tested. Also string through body looks like a sensible mod. Local guitar 'guru' Andy Manners ex vintage and rare repair man is going to 'oversee' the wood shaping and install. A nice little team developing here. There might, just might be a hint of rope binding somewhere too !

Paul Alcantara · Post by **Paul Alcantara** » 26 Jan 2012 5:42 am

John Billings wrote:"Plain and functional perhaps"

Functional,,, yes.

OK John, I was referring to the original US built Danos, none of which, to my knowledge came with a sparkle finish! I guess that the Longhorn design is rather flamboyant but most Danos were basic single and (later) double cutaway designs with minimal hardware and simple electronics. Their continuing popularity results from the fact that they do sound good and considering their budget status, play reasonably well. The lipstick tube pickups have a jangly sound somewhere between a Tele and Rickenbacker. I own one of the lapsteels and it sounds great! Not up there with a bakelite Ric but usable none the less.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Jan 2012 5:52 am

I currently have 3 Danos. All the reissue models. No longer have my old one, a copper top. That got traded when I got my '57 Strat. I seem to remember some odd finishes, like on the Bell models???? But I don't think the Long Horns were plain janes.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 26 Jan 2012 6:25 am

For some reason the Longhorn's have always appealed to me. Here is a nice clip of Glen Campbell playing one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDPuK_tqG-Y

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 26 Jan 2012 7:49 am

Timeless clip from Glenn. That song retains all its power all these years later.
Jerry Jones makes a Longhorn reissue along with a whole line of Dano-inspired guitars: http://www.jerryjonesguitars.com/longhorn-bass4.html

Paul Alcantara · Post by **Paul Alcantara** » 26 Jan 2012 9:59 am

A few 60s Danos... BTW Andy, Jerry Jones is no longer building guitars.