15" or 12" Speaker?

Christopher Wray · Post by **Christopher Wray** » 13 Dec 2011 8:50 pm

I'm interested to hear if the majority of you all prefer a 15 inch speaker over a 12 inch speaker and why. I play through a 12'' Carr Viceroy when I'm playing guitar and psg on the same gig but lately I've been running through a twin when psg is the only thing I'm playing. The Viceroy sounds incredible but doesn't have quite enough headroom for larger gigs. I love the Carr Rambler and think it would sound amazing with a 15 inch speaker but size is always an issue when playing out. Thoughts?

Christopher Wray · Post by **Christopher Wray** » 14 Dec 2011 1:44 pm

I thought people would have an opinion on this one. Anyone?

Gary Cosden · Post by **Gary Cosden** » 14 Dec 2011 2:53 pm

I personally like a 2x12 more than a single 15. In fact I really like some 4x10 cabinets I have played through even more but the size and weight are a drawback. You're going to find opinions all over the place here and in the end you just have to go with your own take on it. Paul Franklin uses 2 12" cabs and last I heard he sounded pretty decent.

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 14 Dec 2011 4:20 pm

Don't laugh , I play through the 8" in my Vibro Champ !

Gibson Hartwell · Post by **Gibson Hartwell** » 14 Dec 2011 5:23 pm

Hi Christopher, I don't comment on here too often but I have had the same thought as you about the Carr Rambler. Right now I play my Spanish/armpit guitar through through a Slant 6 frequently. That amp breaks up early and really isn't voiced very well for the steel, but sometimes I'll double up with PSG just for convenience. Carr amps have big transformers and so they tend to have nice strong bass. I still don't think that amp will have as much volume as a twin. At lower volumes I still really love the sound of the steel through a deluxe or even a Princeton with a d110f speaker in it. But for louder gigs a twin with a 15 is pretty sweet. The rambler would be more like a pro reverb as I think it just has two 6l6s. Let us know what you end up doing!

Gibson Hartwell · Post by **Gibson Hartwell** » 14 Dec 2011 5:32 pm

All that blabbering and I didn't even answer your question. I guess for me it depends more on the overall volume. As I said a Princeton with a 10-inch d110f can sound super sweet, but you just aren't pushing that much air. To me, generally the smaller speakers are faster and sound more focused, not better or worse, just different.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 15 Dec 2011 9:34 am

For ME (YMMV): JBL E130 15" for single-speaker high-power performance amps, 12" JBL K120's are great too if there's more than one of them...

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 15 Dec 2011 3:49 pm

15"...my most fave amp is my rusty-but-trusty Session 500 and it goes to work whenever I have the character to schlep it around.But my NV112 does very nicely,especially since the Fox chips went in(thanks again,Ken!)and I can get by with the Music Man HD212-150.I don't use an amp at home for woodshedding,just headphones once in awhile.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 16 Dec 2011 4:42 am

I don't think there is what you'd call a consensus on this. I like 15" speakers best. For both pedal steel and fiddle.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 16 Dec 2011 8:35 am

U-12 with a .070 12 string I prefer a 15" speaker. However. I saw David Wright years ago at the Texas Steel guitar show demonstrate a Sierra playing through two computer speakers and he sounded very nice....Go figure!

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 17 Dec 2011 7:36 am

I'm not an authority by any means, but all 3 of my amps have a 15" speaker. My Nashville 400 is the oldest, and the LTD 400 I had previous to that was a 15". A couple guys mentioned getting 2 12" speakers for my Little Walter, but said if I was used to a 15" it would be just fine. And it is. Probably depends on just what you're used and what you like. My 2 cents.

Ray DeVoe · Post by **Ray DeVoe** » 20 Dec 2011 3:41 am

Here is an earlier thread with the same topic. I entered one reply in it.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Ray DeVoe

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 28 Dec 2011 7:32 am

Here's my take on the 12" vs. 15" question. I like both... but for different things. If you like a small and easily transported cabinet, a 12" in a small tuned cabinet will actually deliver more bass than a 15" in the same sized cabinet. It's a bit counter to what you'd think. If you can deal with a large cabinet and you like an open back, a 15" will deliver more bass than a 12" in the same sized cabinet.

I think the reason that 15" speakers became popular for steel was that in the early days most guitar amps had an open back cabinet and the amps usually were no more than about 80 watts and were rated at maybe three to five percent distortion. The speaker had to be big to move air. It also had to have a high sensitivity (efficiency). By nature, a 15" has more mass which means it can't move as fast as a smaller 12" can. This slightly slower response in a 15" was likely perceived as mellower highs which I suspect was desirable in a steel. Guys who played C6 also liked the deeper bass.

I think our ears got used to the sound of a 15" in an open back cabinet. It's really nice
ffor traditional country playing. I can still hear the sound of a push pull through a Nashville 400 or Session 400 on a slow country ballad. That "whistling" sound is wonderful... for that type of song.

Many steel players have branched out into other styles and their amp needs to deliver many things. One day it could be a super loud stage, one day it could be a session and the next it could be a singer-songwriter gig in a coffeehouse. 12" speakers in a properly designed cabinet (with a well designed power amp) seem to deliver pretty well in all situations. Two 12" speakers in two small cabinets seems to be the magic.

I must say that I think back on hearing a single Evans FET 500 with a 15" JBL in a club on chair, on a
country ballad...really nice... -Or- plug into my Standel 50L15, play at low volume and it transports you back to the sixties.
TC

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Dec 2011 10:26 am

I've been using mostly 2 12" cabs for a while now or amps with 1 12" in them. I tend to like them better. I'm thinking of checking out a single 15" combo amp soon though.

This amp looks like it might be amazing:
http://www.pedalsteelamp.com/The_Pedal_ ... /Home.html

Tim likes 15"s better so I will go with his opinion if I can figure where to get the money for one.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 28 Dec 2011 10:35 am

I have 2 cabs: one with an Altec 418-8H (15) and one with an Altec 417-8H (12). I love both of these speakers, but on the bigger gigs I prefer the 15. It occupies a little more sonic real estate and really fills out the sound nicely. I don't like a really deep sound, so I may EQ out the extreme low end, but the lower mids are lovely.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 29 Dec 2011 9:06 am

I like whatever speaker is in the amp I'm currently digging. At the moment, it's a Nashville 112 with a 12" speaker. But that could change at any second.

Christopher Wray · Post by **Christopher Wray** » 20 Jan 2012 12:33 pm

Thanks for the replies!! T.C. I really appreciate all the info. Great stuff.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 20 Jan 2012 4:09 pm

I like a 15" speaker over a 12". Simply because the 15" , to my ears, gives more fullness, or body to my tone.
terry

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 1 Jun 2012 3:27 am

I like a midrangy setting through a 15", preferably an Emi Legend.

Helmut Gragger · Post by **Helmut Gragger** » 2 Jun 2012 12:00 pm

I have a Jansen Steel-100 with a 15" woofer. This has an aluminium cone, I guess to extend its high end.
As usual, it is fitted into a cabinet that would normally be undersized for that size speaker.

I also use a detuned cabinet that looks like a 2x12, but is only equipped by design with a single 12" woofer (Eminence Delta Pro). Being a PA speaker, this does not have the pronounced midrange peak other dedicated guitar speakers have. Although not competitive in size (the detuned is much bigger), I would not hesitate one second to prefer it - for sweeter tone and pressure.

However, I found a Roland Cube 60 (80ies version) with a 12" speaker in a small cabinet, and for what it is, this has great sound that rivals both on small gigs, both by tone and of course portability.

For homerecording, I use neither. I go direct into the board and do all processing afterwards where I have full control.

Regarding fat tone: any recording engineer that was semi knowledgeable would immediately cut too much lows out, because those compete with the bass and drums anyway. Moreover, as I said, steel guitar cabinets are undersized (for say, a bass guitar) so I don´t really see the point of a 15" speaker other than it pushed more air easily, unless you use a 12" driver that was fit for the job. The Eminence Delta Pro is, also the Electro-Voice EVM12L is.

Drivers made for screaming rock guitar are probably unsuitable for steel guitar.

Note: vintage tube amps like the old Fenders were known for their clean tone. It was only later that they became known for their overdriven rock tone. Nobody had ever dreamt to use them beyond their limits and they were made for clean reproduction, hence their usefulness for steel.

-helmut

Bryant Aycock · Post by **Bryant Aycock** » 2 Jun 2012 9:08 pm

I like a 15".

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 3 Jun 2012 9:48 am

This conversation never seems to end...

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=223801

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=227033

Mostly I just like to use stuff that works...

Helmut Gragger · Post by **Helmut Gragger** » 4 Jun 2012 12:15 am

Dave Grafe wrote:This conversation never seems to end...

And it never will. Not only for speakers, same for stomp boxes, strings, pickups, etc etc etc.

What sounds good to one may not sound good to somebody else. What works well for one may not work for somebody else. Welcome to the realm of subjectivism.
Musicians seem particularly prone to that in their quest for the "real tone".

-helmut

Mat Davallet · Post by **Mat Davallet** » 4 Jun 2012 12:30 am

Hi
I put a Celestion G12-65 on a princeton reverb 70's silveface (originally mounted with a 10" alnico CTS) and it sounds great, with no distorsion on hig-med. Bass are not as big as my N400, but more define. The problems is on scene, i need to have my amp close to me or get more return, because it's too tiny to ear it clearly.