Release and Indemnification Agreement

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Jan 2012 12:23 pm

I've signed these things for a lot of gigs before, typically for big public events where they don't want the band to be able to sue over something going wrong I guess.

However... this year I got one from the San Antonio Livestock Exposition (the rodeo) and they require it not only be signed and returned, but notarized. Not just a single agreement for the band, but a notarized one from every band member.

C'mon man...

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jan 2012 12:59 pm

OMG....LOL...YGBFKM!!!!

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Jan 2012 1:03 pm

Don't laugh at me pal! I heard that James is about to implement a similar process at the Broken Spoke.. You and Weldon and the guys are gonna have to go find a notary.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Jan 2012 1:34 pm

Why not repond with stipulations of your own - and ask them to get their signature notarised? This way they're covered , but not you!

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Jan 2012 1:46 pm

Why not repond with stipulations of your own - and ask them to get their signature notarised? This way they're covered , but not you!

Indeed. However, this gig pays fairly well and I guess the band leader guy didn't want to rock the boat. We've worked for the rodeo the last several years, and our 'ultimatums' in the past about easier access to the stage areas, more money, etc. haven't gone over real well. (Nothing like dragging a steel guitar rig about a quarter mile through the midway to get to the stage.)

I guess it's the same old story from their side, "If you guys don't want to do this gig under our conditions, there are a lot of other bands who will."

Sad but true..

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 19 Jan 2012 1:57 pm

And there lies the problem with band wages and treatment by management around the country. If you won't play on the cheap, there are others lined up who will. And some, we call 'em sharks, will try to undercut you and steal your job regardless of how good they are, and they often succeed. Somewhere along the way the words "play" music have been taken far to literally.....I have had to sign a lot of contracts but never had to have one notarized. I guess ya gotta take it or stay home....good luck.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Jan 2012 2:00 pm

I guess ya gotta take it or stay home.

Yep, and I DO like to play these things once we get past all the idiocy. Big crowds, lots of fun.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 19 Jan 2012 2:30 pm

Take a friend & a big hat & have them to pass it around thru the crowd,ought to offset any inconveniences you may suffer.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 19 Jan 2012 3:04 pm

Don't laugh at me pal! I heard that James is about to implement a similar process at the Broken Spoke.. You and Weldon and the guys are gonna have to go find a notary

Ok; now I'm not laughing.....>that is just insane and I really really don't think that will happen at the Spoke....but we'll see I guess. I live with a Notary; so no prob....ha..
Ricky

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Jan 2012 3:17 pm

I was just making stuff up.. You really think James cares about stuff like that???? LOL..

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 19 Jan 2012 4:17 pm

If you're doing this for a living you don't have much choice, but if not, you wouldn't catch me within a mile of this place or any like it.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 19 Jan 2012 5:40 pm

Looks like their lawyer's working overtime...OK,I think they'd be justified in asking for a waiver from the person they will be 1099'ing for the gig,but liability issues for the sidemen are largely between you as the contractor and them as subcontractors.

Another question that arises is that when someone asks you to waive your right to recourse if they scr*w you,isn't that a warning that they intend to scr*w you?

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 19 Jan 2012 8:15 pm

Hi Bill, When I Play The Rodeo, I Go Through the Gate at the Coliseum,The Stage Is 50 Yards, Tell them you are in the Band and Takeing Equipment in! Its the only way To Avoid the Hassle Of Hauling It a Mile and Haveing To Deal with all The Barney Fife Police Wantabees at The Rodeo. It is a Fun Gig and lots of People, Get it Notarised and Have a Great time. I am Playing Seaworld Next Friday and Sat. For The Rodeo Kickoff Barbeque Contest, If You are there look Me Up, Randy Gilliam. ( Miller Tent)

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Jan 2012 5:14 am

Looks like shackin' up with a lawyer might be almost as good an idea as shackin' up with a nurse... well, then again....

Andrew Roblin · Post by **Andrew Roblin** » 20 Jan 2012 6:44 am

A couple of years ago, a client asked me to sign one for a solo gig paying moderately well. I refused and lost the gig.

Six months later, an agent booked my trio into the same venue for excellent pay. This time, no release was required.

Did the gig and had a good time, too. Interesting.

Andrew Roblin
International Sho-Bud Brotherhood

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 20 Jan 2012 8:20 am

Hey Randy, I tried the Coliseum gate before, no luck. They told me no entrance for bands that way, I'd have to go around to the back and come in through the parking lot.

Your comment about Barney Fife wannabes is SO spot on. Last year, the band leader and one of the guys showed up with the band vehicle, and the renta-cop let him drive right up into the grounds and park by the door to the club. I came along 15 mins later (different renta-cop due to shift change) and was told I could not take a vehicle in to unload my stuff, even temporarily. So I had to borrow a dolly and drag the stuff about 1/4 mile.. I was PLENTY hot.

I should be glad I guess, because the keyboard guy showed up at the outside gate right after me, and they wouldn't even let him in to the actual barn area... He was in the parking lot! That's part of the frustration, the logistics of bands/equipment are VERY poorly planned (if at all), and everybody you talk that's supposedly in charge will give you a different answer.

Oh well, at least they got it together on the Indemnification Agreements!!

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 20 Jan 2012 11:19 am

I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how things work in Texas, but these release forms don't hold up if there is harmful neglegence on their part. For example: If you go skydiving and sign a similar release, and then your parachute fails because they gave you shoddy equipment or failed to inspect it, they are still liable. I think these forms are meant to discourage lower level lawsuits, or frivolous claims. Do we have any lawyers on board?

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 20 Jan 2012 2:12 pm

In my experience, the bigger the Venue, the more Pain-In-The-XXX it is to get your equipment in and out of the Gig. Especially outdoor gigs.

Norm Michaels · Post by **Norm Michaels** » 21 Jan 2012 5:32 am

No one should get upset about getting a signature notarized, except for the extra hassle of finding a notary. The acknowledgement merely states that you appeared before the notary, showed some id to prove who you were claiming to be and that you signed the document voluntarily (for its stated purpose).

The only slightly larger problem is suing the other side even though you signed the contract. You'll need a good business/contracts lawyer for that. Just because you signed a piece of paper does not mean your hands are tied and you are without alternatives. I'm not encouraging that every little bruised ego, problem, or breach that happens should be litigated. Just the opposite. Litigation is very expensive, time consuming and gut wrenching . . . and the odds of winning are always lousy. For everyone who wins a case, someone loses, that makes the odds 50-50 at best.

Finally, most of what winds up in court(except for the huge - the stage fell down sort of things) is not about good guy-bad guy, or right or wrong, its just about dispute resolution and money.

Best to all.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 21 Jan 2012 5:35 am

..except for the extra hassle of finding a notary.

That's my beef...

Norm Michaels · Post by **Norm Michaels** » 21 Jan 2012 5:42 am

Don't know how it is in most other parts of the country, but around here (east coast) every CVS, Walgreeens and bank has one, and probably won't (read shouldn't) charge. As far as the hassle goes, its what we have come to know as "the new normal" and it sucks. Just my $0.02.

Norm

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 Jan 2012 7:33 am

The "new normal" around here, (Northern CA) is minimum ten bucks a pop. When you try to get the employer to reimburse you, that is when you will encounter the true meaning of "hassle….." ……

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 21 Jan 2012 8:55 am

6 bux here... UPS Store down the street. Band leader says he'll everybody back off the top, but it's still a hassle.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 21 Jan 2012 5:31 pm

Bill,I was thinking about this thread off and on today.It does seem that management,as it often does,is making your crew jump through hoops because much of business is about having fun jerking people around just to show you can.

I suppose as professionals you guys really don't have a choice to do anything other than(as my grandma said) "put a big smile on your face and keep your mouth shut".I am reminded,though,that getting hassled and nitpicked by an employer is often a prelude to getting canned and it might be appropriate for your bandleader to be prepared to not get another booking from this venue,and even if he's offered one,to be unavailable for that date.YMMV

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 22 Jan 2012 7:20 am

Dave, I sorta agree, although it seems the folks 'at the top' or event/talent planners who the bandleader generally negotiates with, are generally pretty nice. But they don't handle the band logistics, i.e. contracts, load-in/load-out details, transportation, parking.. all that.

Those aspects seem to be organized(?) by folks further down the food chain, and of that bunch, I've found the security employees to be much like you stated. With a few exceptions here and there, those people seem to enjoy making your life as miserable as possible, just because they can. I guess they're just jealous they're not living the glamorous life of a musician huh?

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