Carter D-10 wood cracks in top deck by changers-Photos-Help!

[Susan Conway]

Hello everyone,

I could use some help figuring out what to do about some damage to a guitar I just received. I think it may have fallen or been dropped while in shipment to me.

I bought this guitar to learn how to play with but after opening the case, I noticed 2 cracks, one to the right of each neck changer.

How could this have happened. Does anyone think this could have happened while in shipment to me if the shipper dropped the box hard?

The cracks seem to run from the edge of the top deck wood, running under each changer, and over to the routing holes for each changer.

For now, the crack at the C6 neck seems worse than the one at the D9 neck.

Could anyone offer some advice about what to do next?
Should these cracks be repaired?
Structuraly, must they be repaired?
Does anyone know of any qualified repair persons to contact about repairing these cracks?
Would the entire top deck wood deck have to be replaced?

I'm kind of in a bind because I know I'm going to have to get some written estimates of the damage to give to the shipping carrier's insurance company.

Who can I contact about the repair?

I don't even know where to start.

If you can help with any suggections, please let me know about what you think the best course of action would be, or who I might contact to ask about any repair estimates, if needed.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Susan

Please review the photos below:

[Chris Lucker]

Those cracks are very common in pedal steel guitars. In mica covered guitars you do not see the cracks.

Do not worry about them. When you have the endplates off at some time you may glue and clamp the wood, but do not worry about it now.

[Richard Sinkler]

Where did you get the guitar? That is hard for me to believe that it is shipping damage if the case wasn't also showing some signs of damage. Inside the case, I would think it would take quite a drop to cause that, maybe to the point of destroying the case. Did you see the guitar before buying? Any pics prior to buying?

Chris is probably right.

Very pretty guitar though.

[Susan Conway]

Thanks very much Chris and Richard,

Is it really true that these are common on pedal steel guitars?

So, it is of no concern structurally?

Where do these type of cracks come from usually?

Thanks,
Susan

[Paul Sutherland]

As the wood dries out this is the most likely place to get a crack. My old Rus-ler D-10 has those cracks. They don't affect the steel in any way. Don't worry!!

[Richard Sinkler]

Well, 2 very knowledgeable players both agree it's not a real problem. I would believe these 2 guys.

[Jim Park]

Yup.........My Fessenden has one just like it.......plays just fine

[Jerry Roller]

Susan, the bolt holes that attaches the changer to the body causes weakness in the wood body and those cracks usually occur in the grain that is weakened by the holes. There is no significant structural problem since the bolts also go thru the endplate which provides the strength. I always repair those on lacquer guitars just because of the cosmetics. I glue them then put a dowel thru that area with the endplate covering the end of the dowel. As Chris stated we never see those cracks in a mica guitar. I have only repaired one mica guitar that cracked the mica in that area by repairing the crack in the body then recovering the deck with new mica. It is a rather costly job to repair those cracks.
Jerry

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

Cracks or no cracks, that's one gorgeous guitar!

[Bobby Bowman]

Susan,
Was this guitar bought as a new guitar from a Carter dealer or represenitive? If so, contact that person. Supply them with the pictures and they should help you from there.
Also, document this with the shipper and include the pictures for that company too.
Be curtious, but be firm with them. Keep and, as well as, make copies of all the shipping papers and the bill of sell from the seller. Hopefully he (the shipper) had insurance included in the shipping charges.
Stay in contact with the claims department of the shipper.
FedEx, UPS or whoever shipped the guitar.
Main thing is to stay on it and not let up or accept excusses.
Unless this was an "as is" sell, someone other than you is responsable for the damage.
It may not interfere with the integrety of the guitar and its' playability, but it needs to be made right by whoever is responsable.
Either properly repaired or replaced with another guitar. If I were you, I wouldn't settle for anything less.
BB

[Bill Hatcher]

you should worry about them!!!


this is a common problem with carter guitars that a lot of people dont know about. i had several carters and they ALL had those cracks behind the changer on the C6 neck. i went round and round with john fabian before he passed about the cracks in mine. to his credit he finally offered to exchange the body on one for me, BUT i would have to let HIM supply me with whatever color he wanted and at the time the only color he would give me was white....yuk.

anyway just gluing the crack is sometimes not possible. the pressure of the pull of the changer can actually warp the wood there so you cannot pull the two pieces back together. the repair is not as easy as you would think. you have to take the end plate off and relieve all the pressure on the changer and then use a heavy duty jorgenson bar clamp to try to pull the crack together. the crack in your guitar has separated pretty far. thats not what you want to see. you really only want to see a hairline crack that requires very little clamping pressure. when your guitar first cracked, that is what it looked like, but over time the wood has warped from the string pressure and the crack has opened up even more. just putting in some glue and then massive clamping pressure to close it is not the way to fix that. it will most likely open back up from the changer/string pull pressure there.

what i did after i decided that i did not want the white body from carter was to take a dremel tool and rout through the crack with a 1/8th inch router bit all the way up to the formica. then i inserted a splice of maple in and glued it with very light clamping pressure. you have a solid wood guitar so you really cant do this type of repair without seeing it. the formica covered up the repair on the carter i did.

i do not believe your guitar was damaged in shipment. i bet if everyone who had a carter d10 guitar would flip it over and take a flashlight and look at that small strip of wood behind the C6 changer that there would be quite a few surprises found!

too bad about your problem on such a nice looking instrument. if you dont fix it, the next thing that will happen is the wood will start to pull forward and upward being even more unsightly.

do me a favor and flip the guitar over and see if the cracks are close to the holes that the changer screws go through.

[chris ivey]

if it's a used guitar i wouldn't worry. every steel i've had ended up with them.
very pretty guitar!

[Carson Leighton]

I just checked my Carter for cracks and couldn't find any..I wouldn't be too happy if I did,,even if it doesn't affect the way they work...Mine is a '96, so I guess if it was going to crack,it would have by now...It's a great little guitar and it sounds beautiful to me..I don't think I have ever played a steel that worked any nicer...BTW, that is one handsome Carter you have there Susan...I believe that guitar could be fixed so the repair would hardly be noticeable...Cheers,,,Carson

[Ned McIntosh]

My Carter "Blondie" has a crack in much the same place. No-one can tell from the tone though. No-one. Not even me.

Susan, I'd just clean and polish that aluminium, lube the changer and roller-nut (plenty of advice in the forums about how to do that!!) re-string the necks and start your journey into the unknown. Your Carter will sound beautiful.

That's one very sweet-looking steel. She and "Blondie" might be cousins!



"Blondie"!

[Bill Hatcher]

My Carter "Blondie" has a crack in much the same place. No-one can tell from the tone though. No-one. Not even me.

Susan, I'd just clean and polish that aluminium, lube the changer and roller-nut (plenty of advice in the forums about how to do that!!) re-string the necks and start your journey into the unknown. Your Carter will sound beautiful.

sorry, i cant agree. you should send the guitar back where you got it from and demand your money back if you were not made aware of these cracks before the purchase.

you see how much bigger the crack has opened up on the C6 neck. thats the weakest spot on the guitar. according to how the crack is positioned in regards to the screw hole that the changer bolt goes through, the next move over time will be the wood lifting up on one side of the crack.

i can only give my opinion based on my experience. just because it is a nice looking guitar, it has a structural flaw in it that is only going to get worse and devalue the guitar. im sorry, cracks behind the changer are not just ok to be ignored. just my opinion.

[Clete Ritta]

Susan,
That is a real beauty! I would be very disappointed to receive it that way if those cracks were created by damage in transit, and were not there initially when purchased. This thread had me running to my Carter to check it for cracks, but I didnt find any.

Even though the consensus is that cracks are fairly common and dont affect the sound or playability, you are the one who will see them every time you play it. When you spend a large sum of money like that, you want it to be as flawless as can be and to be proud of it!

Look at it this way: if you do get money back for damage repair, you can still play it, as is, right now without fixing it, and consider that you got it at a substantially discounted price. Otherwise, if it is repaired or replaced, you may be waiting a while without anything to play. It will sound and look the same (minus the repaired gaps) if you get it repaired, but it might not sound or look exactly the same if it is replaced. I hope you get the matter straightened out one way or another soon!

Clete

[Bob Knight]

This is on a 40 year old guitar.(No, it has not been repaired) The degree of seasoning of the wood when the guitar was built has a great effect on how much it will crack. All do not get worse, in fact most do not.

I don't think the Carter was damaged in shipping, it was just built with improperly seasoned wood.

[Richard Sinkler]

No cracks in my Carter looking underneath. I can't see though the formica. Do the cracks usually go all the way through the wood from top to bottom?

[Jerry Jones]

I think this is a problem caused mostly by fluctuations in wood moisture content and the fragile nature of these small sections of cross-cut wood. Sooner or later, dry indoor winter air will cause this to happen. When the dry air shrinks the fragile wood relative to the metal components around the endplate, something must give and it ends up being the wood.

One solution, during original construction, would be to route a slot into the endgrain and glue in a wood spline with opposing grain.....sort of like making a three piece plywood sandwich. You could also cut a slot in the center of this piece during construction, allowing for future expansion and contraction.

Nice guitar!

[Susan Conway]

Hi guys,
Thanks for all your responses!
I'm still trying to figure out what to do and considering all of your suggestions.

Will you please keep considering this as I am finding this a very great help in trying to make the right choice of action.

Yes I think I can see the cracks through the changer fingers.

It is a used guitar. Seller indicates no cracks when he sent it out and blames rough handling by shipping company. Box and Carter hard case seem okay.

Please continue to offer your thinking on this problem---I very much appreciate it!

Thanks,
Susan

[Richard Sinkler]

The seller is full of crap. There is no way that happened in transit or the case would be destroyed. Did he give pictures of the guitar prior to you buying it, or did you just take his word for it?

[Bill Hatcher]

i do not believe it is shipping damage. the C6 neck crack is much wider. this has been moving for a while. also you can see that there is no lacquer chipped off around the crack. that would be the norm for a crack that just happened real fast as a result of rough shipping. these cracks start off to be hairline and then open up more as time goes by and the tension of the strings on the changer housing starts to distort the wood. if i am not mistaken the thickness of the C6 neck top plate is only 1/2" which when i was working on my carter i thought to be too thin.

do you have the pictures of the guitar before it was sent???

here are some pics of mine. this is what can happen.

[Bill Hatcher]

more pics of the crack and the repair. actually the cracks were not through the changer bolt holes, but the two holes behind it. i forget what was screwed in there. maybe the end plate casting.

[Randy Gilliam]

Susan I Have had 2 Guitars Destroyed by UPS and Both Insured and Was Told They Were Not Packed Well. I have seen where they have a Conveyer Belt 12 Feet off the Cement Floor they Drop them On and Damage Them. They have put me out of Buisness Shipping Steels! Good Luck! Randy Gilliam.

[Richard Sinkler]

I had a UPS rep tell me one time (at a job I had) that to properly pack a package, it will need to survive a drop from the back of a semi truck trailer for ground shipments and be able to survive a fall from the belly of an airplane for air shipments.

But, this was no shipping damage.