Hmm, how do I make minor chords in E7 tuning?

[Kevin Shiflett]

First, I am new to lap steel and its tunings. I have played slide on guitar for a few years in open E but wanted something different.

I have heard clips *not many!* of guys in E7 tuning *six string* doing string pulls and making the lap sound sort of like pedal steel.

So I ran my lap steel into a vol pedal for swells and was getting some really nice modern pedal steel sounds.

Untill I needed to play an Em chord. I'm trying to work out some nice background stuff to play over Tim McGraw's its your love.

I plugged in the Em into the chord finder at John Ely's site and it just gave me a Cmaj chord. Granted they are relative and all but the Cmaj sounded really bad in place of a real Em.

I'm not sure what to do. I plan on using this setup on ballads just to add a little flavor in the background but ballads tend make use of minor chords pretty regualr.

I guess I could tune my fith string to a minor 3rd since I never seem to use the 7th anyway. Would need another string guage though.

[Bob Russell]

If you can do a split-bar slant, you can get Em on strings 3, 4 and 5. String 5, 2nd fret; the other two strings at the 3rd fret.

There's another one on strings 4, 3 and 2: 4th string, 7th fret; the other two strings at the 8th fret.

Same kind of slant up high on the first 3 strings, frets 11 and 12.

[Kevin Shiflett]

Ahh, I will have to do some reading up on those. Thx!

[Bob Russell]

This might help:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/002578.html

[Kevin Shiflett]

Right to the point.

I think I will hunt down that video.

I pulled out the bullet bar I had from my brief run on the pedal steel and yes indeed, it works!

I had been using a dobro slide that came with my lap steel.

[Bob Russell]

Happy slantin', dude!

[Steve Perry]

This might help:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/002578.html

So.... I wonder what Jerry really thought of the Stevens bar???

[Morgan Scoggins]

Kevin,
Welcome to the world of nonpedal steel. It looks like you got a good start.
I have been playing 8 string non pedal steel for 4 years plus a few months. An old player I met told me the secret to learning the steel guitar is learning where to find 2 note chords. The C major chord that you mentioned has the notes E and G . Those are two notes that are also in an E minor chord.They are, in E7 tuning at the 8th fret on the 2nd and third strings.The third fret has the notes D and B on the same two strings. This is two notes of a B minor chord. The same relationship is on each fret.
Good luck with you playing.

[Bob Russell]

This might help:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/002578.html

So.... I wonder what Jerry really thought of the Stevens bar???

It's hard to tell from that post, isn't it?

[Jerome Hawkes]

great link - can you believe we were just a few years ago, still blessed with Jerry and his knowledge - it is such a shame, esp in this age, that we didnt get more of his wisdom documented - i wonder if any of his students ever taped their lessons?

- i have a great set from mandolin master Jethro Burns (who played w/Byrd) - just beautiful insight into his thinking / playing - i'd love to find a JB version of that.

[James Weigel]

Thanks for that link! I'm a dobro player waiting for my first 8 string steel. I was getting ready to post the question, "how many people play lap steel with a stevens bar?" when I read this thread. I have my answer! Listening to Jerry Byrd is what made me want to get the lap steel to begin with.

[Bob Russell]

Thanks for that link! I'm a dobro player waiting for my first 8 string steel. I was getting ready to post the question, "how many people play lap steel with a stevens bar?" when I read this thread. I have my answer! Listening to Jerry Byrd is what made me want to get the lap steel to begin with.

There are/were famous players who used bars other than bullet-style bars. For example, Don Helms used a Stevens-type bar, but he didn't slant very much. I think it'd be near-impossible to get the most from slant technique without using a round-nosed bar. As Jerry Byrd says in his seminar video (I'm paraphrasing here), "As long as I've been working on this, if there were a better way, don't you think I'd have found it?"

The thing that's fired my imagination lately: those bars with both ends rounded. In the epic (and amazing) thread of Gibson Mastertone material supplied by Michael Lee Allen, there are photos of such bars. I wonder what playing with those would be like... they look slippery as all get-out!

[HowardR]

Here's a grooved bullet bar.......this shows one side of the bar......about 7 years ago, Carter Steel Guitars offered a "Sacred Steel Bar".....they found someone who could make grooved bullet nosed bars and offered two models.....one with side grooves and one with side and top groove....I bought one of each and then they abruptly stopped making them.......

[HowardR]

Here's the bottom of the bar.....you can use either end.....depending on how you want/need to play.....

[Mike Ihde]

Jerome,

As to taping lessons with Jerry, he didn't allow it. I was really disappointed with that. I studied with him for 2 weeks back in '95 and was ready to tape the lessons as much for me as for my students in the future but when he said "No" he meant no. He wouldn't let me tape him playing at the Halekulani either but I did.

I always had the feeling that he didn't want his lessons to be copied and shared with other players. It's too bad he didn't realize how much we would all like to learn from him and not steal from him.

[Bob Russell]

Thanks, Howard. I guess the grooves make it easier to lift the bar (for single-note playing)?

[HowardR]

Yes......it makes it easier to lift & move the bar for both single note and however many notes you want to play......also for bar slams.....

I've used the Shubb bars but these are a larger girth which I like.....

[John Ed Kelly]

Morgan wrote: ''An old player I met told me the secret to learning the steel guitar is learning where to find 2 note chords.''

At the risk of sounding churlish, I was taught that a chord is a combination of three or more tones. Two tones played together is just two part harmony.

I have tried using two note harmonies as chords, but it just seems to be inadequate in most instances. There's only so much you can do with six strings, straight or slanted, with a basic tuning.

Here's what works for me.......so far anyway.....

Because I play jazz clarinet (playing in the brass keys), and am attempting to do the same with SG, I have opted for a tuning of Eb, F, A, C, D, F. However, one could (say) tune down to E using D, E, Ab, B, Db, E

I have found almost all of the jazz I chords I need now.

[Steve Ahola]

An old player I met told me the secret to learning the steel guitar is learning where to find 2 note chords.

I agree with that wholeheartedly (although to be technically correct 2 notes would be an interval and not a chord). From those 2 note intervals you can build whatever chord you want- in succession (not something that you could strum all at once.) When playing with others there is often a note or two that you can omit from a chord like if the bass player has the root of the chord covered. If the guitarist is playing the basic chords you can be embellishing them with the 7ths, 9ths, 11th or 13ths. You can do a lot with just two notes (most people can only sing one note at a time! )

I really like using the major and minor 6ths in C6th tuning by skipping over 2 strings; the two outside grips are the major 6th and the inside grip is the minor 6th. But the fun is just beginning- when you add forward and reverse slants of 1 or 2 frets to those grips you can get any interval between a diminished 5th (the tritone) and a major 7th. By skipping over 2 strings the slants are fairly easy to do (and keep in tune!)

Of course you also have the intervals between adjacent strings and by skipping over 1 string (which I think that we all know so I will not bother to spell them out.)

Steve Ahola

[Steve Lipsey]

My bass player keeps telling me - "You don't have to play the root, I've got it covered...."

[Steve Ahola]

I guess I could tune my fith string to a minor 3rd since I never seem to use the 7th anyway. Would need another string guage though.

So you are playing E7th and not using the 7th... hmmm. With your lap steel strung up for E7th you can raise the 4th string (the E) 2 frets to F# for E9th tuning. When you do that you get a big fat minor chord on the bottom 3 strings: B-D-F# in the open position.

Having the 7th right next to the root (and on the 5th string) just doesn't work for me that well. Having the 2nd and 3rd right next to each works a lot better, especially for single note lines.

One other alteration for E7th is E6th. Lower the 5th string 1 fret to C# and voila! In addition to the E6th chord you also have a C#m7 chord going from the b7 on the 6th string up to the b3 on the 1st string.

I consider all 3 of these tunings to be "country cousins" and will switch back and forth between all of them depending on the song.

Code: Select all

E7  E9  E6
--  --  --
E   E   E
B   B   B
G#  G#  G#
E   F#  E
D   D   C#
B   B   B

E6th has a nice jazz/pop flavor to it and works well with major or dominant scales (plus the C# minor scale.) E7th has the dominant 7th so I think it works great for rock and blues, or straight ahead old country music. E9th has the dominant 7th like E7th, but with the 9th it has a jazzy dominant feel to it which works great with Western swing or jazzy rock and blues. Those are just my own opinions- I'm sure that there are other interpretations. In any case, between those 3 tunings I can usually find something appropriate for practically any song I'd want to play.

Steve Ahola