Adding a second pickup on my Carter using CNC

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 1 Dec 2011 10:20 pm

Hey Forumites,

I've been contemplating putting a neck pickup in my Carter for some time now after playing on Roosevelt Collier's Fessy with the double pickup set-up. The tone difference between having only the bridge pickup and both bridge and neck pickup was amazing.

I want to attempt to have a similar set-up (with 3-way switch) and I have measured the dimensions of the cavity that would have to be cut to allow the pickup into the aluminum neck. I have little knowledge of CNC process but I found a CNC shop in the area. I'm just petrified at the thought of the shop messing the job up or leaving a jagged edge or unprecise cut.

Do any of you guys have experience with aftermarket CNC machining on your pedal steels? Any positive or negetive results? Anything I should be aware of?

Thanks for the advise,
C. Johnson

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 2 Dec 2011 3:14 am

As long as they are a reputable shop and YOU give them accurate drawings, they will do just fine. Better yet, most CNC machine shops have an on staff applications engineer (CNC programmer) that can work with you. Be aware that it probably won't be cheap. You will probably have to remove the neck as they will probably have to run coolant while machining and any wood will probably get ruined.

Jason Hull · Post by **Jason Hull** » 2 Dec 2011 3:34 am

Roger Francis · Post by **Roger Francis** » 2 Dec 2011 6:31 am

Whats the big advantage of having 2 PUs on steel guitar? I understand how it affects 6 string guitars and i see P Franklin has 2 on one of his that he plays alot, i guess what im asking is when your playing it with both PUs on does it just mellow out the sound with fatter lows and take some of the bite out of the HIs etc.? Never set behind one with 2 PU so i'm just curious! Roger

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 2 Dec 2011 6:44 am

A CNC machine is not necessary to do what you are wanting. Any competent machinist with a milling machine could handle that for you.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 2 Dec 2011 10:03 am

Actually, Jim is right. A regular old Bridgeport will do the same.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 2 Dec 2011 11:56 am

The Carter neck is just a piece of thin folded aluminium plate, you could do the job yourself with a hand drill and a jigsaw

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 2 Dec 2011 12:18 pm

I wouldn't to that if you wanted it to look "a certain way.."

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 2 Dec 2011 8:01 pm

Thanks for the advice guys,

Roger, I think having two pickups on steel is comparable to having two on a standard 6 string. The pickup next to the bridge is trebly and the neck pickup picks up the more resonant sound of the strings further up adding some extra body. I believe key to hearing a more pronounced difference is to space the neck pickup at a reasonable distance from the bridge pickup (as on a tele). Adding a second pickup may not impress the traditional country player, but I think Jazz, Blues and Rock steelers would appreciate the extra body. I heard it first hand.

I have the Carter premium edge neck FWIW. How cost prohibitive for CNC? Will the Bridgeport make a nice clean cut in the aluminum?

Thanks again,
C. Johnson

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 2 Dec 2011 8:37 pm

A CNC based milling machine is traditionally used for complicated operations which this is not or for duplication of many- and this is not that either. Any milling machine that will hold the neck will do fine- even a table mill will suffice- the outcome depends on the operator and any machinist should be able to handle this easily.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 3 Dec 2011 1:47 am

As far as the cost, you have account for the programmer to write the CNC code, the setup guy, and the time charge for the machine. One off jobs at a machine shop can be very expensive. The same shop will have manual Bridgeport type knee mills. That will be a lot less expensive. The Bridgeport manual mill, with a competent machinist will be every bit as good as a CNC job. The thing to worry about is, they only have one chance to get it right, so excellent communication between you and the machinist is the most important thing. He's pretty much going to do what you tell him to.

Just to clarify my credentials on this subject, I spent 8 years as the Northern California service manager for the Bridgeport distributor in California, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah.

Jason Hull · Post by **Jason Hull** » 3 Dec 2011 4:33 am

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 3 Dec 2011 5:52 am

Isn't the edged neck also made of thin aluminum, bent at a sharper angle? I kind of agree with Richard, but I think you could have good results using a cut-off disc on a Dremel tool to do it. Cover the area with masking tape, layout the hole to be cut, then all you need is a steady hand. The same tool could be used to polish the cut edges. Might be a good idea to practice on a scrap piece of aluminum first.

Mitchell Smithey · Post by **Mitchell Smithey** » 3 Dec 2011 11:16 am

The premium "square"neck on a Carter is machined from a block of aluminum. You would need to peel off the fretboard to expose the six wood screws that attach the neck to the body. You would need to stay away from those screw holes when cutting into that neck.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 4 Dec 2011 6:23 pm

Roger Francis wrote:Whats the big advantage of having 2 PUs on steel guitar? I understand how it affects 6 string guitars and i see P Franklin has 2 on one of his that he plays alot, i guess what im asking is when your playing it with both PUs on does it just mellow out the sound with fatter lows and take some of the bite out of the HIs etc.? Never set behind one with 2 PU so i'm just curious! Roger

The same question could be said about guitars? Why would you need two (or three) pickups on a guitar? There are very few guitar players that would be happy with only a bridge pickup, so why are steel players happy with only one pickup?

Having multiple pickups expands the tonal possibilities available to the pedal steel in exactly the same way that it works on guitar. I couldn't imagine going back to only using one pickup. I am in the process of adding a second pickup to my favorite Franklin D10.

One thing I will mention is that IMHO it's really critical to have the second (neck) pickup farther away from the bridge pickup that is typical in double pickup steels (like Paul's). I think the ideal location is somewhere around the 24th fret. This might involve using a different neck.

My $.02.

David Morgan · Post by **David Morgan** » 10 Dec 2011 6:14 pm

I use two pu's on my Fessenden 12 and one consideration, also, in planning where to place "neck pu" is where you like to pick. Having a pu right where you might like to pick can be an issue in that the pu is closer to strings. I find it difficult to pick directly over a pu. I often play them together out of phase for a slightly more "dobro" tone.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Dec 2011 11:57 pm

I'm not going to do it to my current guitar, but if I was to buy a new guitar, I think I would like to try the 2 pickup thingie on it. The tone possibilities have to be awesome.

Dennis Brown · Post by **Dennis Brown** » 11 Dec 2011 6:46 am

Hey Dan, what would be your choice for a second pickup? I've been pondering the idea and also thought the 24th fret would be a good location. I think it would give a nice slide or dobro simulation with a plastic or wood bar also. Your thoughts? Dennis

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 11 Dec 2011 9:25 am

I like a darker, gibson humbucker type of sound. I have a Tonealigner on there now, but I'm also experimenting with different types. One of these days I'm going to get Jason Lollar to make me a PAF style humbucker. That might be the ticket.

I tend to use both pickups in parallel a lot.

In terms of pickup location, anywhere you put it is going to be a pain in the rear: you probably will need to adjust your technique. I figure it's best to put it where it sounds the best, and adjust your technique to work with it.

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Adding a second pickup on my Carter using CNC

Adding a second pickup on my Carter using CNC

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