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Topic: I can't just slap a .013 in place of my 3rd string can I? |
Benjamin Wolfram
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 14 Nov 2011 10:09 pm |
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| I just broke a .011 string while re-stringing and it was new and all I've got lying around is a spare .013 from a normal guitar string set I had spare. Is it as simple as just re-tuning the pedals/levers if I put a different size string in one position or is there much more to it than that on a pedal steel? I've got a Rittenberry S10 tuned to E9. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2011 10:12 pm
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I'd stand about 15 feet away from the steel wearing body armor the first time I pushed the pedal!
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 14 Nov 2011 10:41 pm
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In the past I've used a 12 on the third string. I believe Paul Franklin uses 12s on the third on a regular basis. It sounds great, but does increase the pedal pressure. I'm back to using 11s now.
A 13 is really pushing the limits, but you might get away with it. If something breaks, it was all your idea. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 14 Nov 2011 11:01 pm
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| Paul Sutherland wrote: |
| ...A 13 is really pushing the limits, but you might get away with it. If something breaks, it was all your idea. |
No way, not with strings currently being mfg'd. If a .013 would work we'd have already heard about it and folks would be using it.
Maybe a .013 would cut it on a mid-60's generation Fender pedal guitar with a 23" scale, but I'm skeptical of even that.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 2:21 am
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Even if it were to hold together, I don't think you could get enough changer travel to hit A.
(While I'm aware that a thicker string gives a faster pull, I submit, from experience, that holds true only when tension remains constant. As tension increases, pitch rises more slowly in response to increased tension.) Run a .013 up to G# and I seriously doubt you'd get A.
In the name of scientific discovery, do it and report the results.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 2:31 am
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| You might hit the A, just before it snaps and hits you in the eye. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 3:17 am
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I've been using a .013 on an older Zum since 2008. No more problems with that than with .012's but I think it depends on the guitar. So yes, you have to retune the pedal/lever pulls.
I only raise and do not lower the 3rd. string on mine. I don't know if that would limit it or not. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 6:34 am
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I switched to a .012 many years ago for that G# and never had one break. It works fine on all my U12 guitars...Emmons, MCI, MSA and Dekley. And it doesn't sound thin like an .011.
As mentioned above, I think an .013 might make the pull too stiff, though...if it even works on your guitar. But I've never tried one.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 6:46 am
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I'm curious as to why those who state so unequivocally that there's "no way" a .013 would work are so sure.
I've used .012 for several years now. It doesn't seem to me that I break the 3rd any more often, and when on occasion I don't have a .012 handy and put on an .011, I only have to re-tune the pulls slightly.
Obviously, using a .013 would be a further increment, but the ease with which my guitars handle the .012 makes me wonder if .013 would be so over the limit.
(Incidentally, I both raise and lower to G.) |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 6:54 am
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| Breaking a few 0.012s while tuning up to G# could be one reason... Been there, done that... |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 7:24 am
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| I have never had a problem with a 12 on the 3rd and am getting ready to try a 13. I hate the winky sound from thin strings. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 7:34 am
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The guitar I broke mine on had a 24.5" scale, if I remember correctly.
And Erv, you're 100 % right about the sound of thin strings, there's nothing worse (when polepieces cannot be adjusted to compensate). |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 10:20 am
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There's no music store around where you could pick up a spare .011 or two?
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 10:36 am
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Many years ago when I was playing my 1st pedal steel, a Sho~Bud Fingertip, I was invited to play for
our church's dedication in Littleton, Colorado.
I kept breaking the 3rd string and I scoured all the music stores in Denver and the surrounding area for a string. I wound up using the 5th string for a banjo. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 11:51 am
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Using some online string tension calculating data, a .013" tuned to A on a 24 1/4" scale comes out at 44 lbs tension.
The breaking tension is about 46 lbs.
Rather you than me  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 12:00 pm
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I like living on the edge. Life is no fun without a little excitement!  |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 12:05 pm
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Another consideration is that if you use a 13 on the third string, but all the other strings are normal gauges, i.e., 14, 17 and 20p for strings 4-6, the balance, sound-wise, will be off. That third string will be louder and fuller.
When I was using a 12 on the third, I also increased the gauges on the fourth thru sixth strings. So I was using 13, 15, 18 and 22p on strings three thru six. It sounded great, and those occasional string rattles down near the nut vanished.
But the increased pedal pressure was noticeable, and I had concerns that I might be prematurely wearing out parts on my old push-pull. Additionally, the cabinet drop increased, due to the higher string pressures, when pedals were engaged. This was most noticeable on the sixth string when just pedal A was pushed.
In my experience, the thicker a plain string the more it is effected by cabinet drop (so a 22 detunes more that a 20), plus the higher the pressure of the strings on the engaged pedal, the more it causes the non-engaged strings to drop (so an 18 on string 5 causes more cabinet drop than a 17 when pedal A is engaged). I'm no engineer, but that's what I've observed.
I did not notice any increase in string breakage when I increased the gauges as outlined above.
But then I never tried a 13, and I'm not going to. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 12:06 pm
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This guy put a .013 on his 3rd string ONCE.
Notice the tool he uses for cutting his strings to length.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 2:15 pm
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Richard B., using the same method, what is the breaking tension for a 12 gauge string?
Yes, when the .013's let go, they get your attention. Don't they all? I suspect it might let out more blood than a smaller string. Don't know...haven't been lashed by one yet.
Feel wise, I don't know how it compares because that's the only thing I've ever used on the Zum. Doesn't feel stiff though.
When I got the guitar, I gauged all the strings with a digital caliper just out of curiosity. I did a double take, triple take, measured it several times because I'd never heard of anybody using a 13 ga. for a 3rd.
I put all new strings on both necks and stuck another 13 on the 3rd expecting it to explode, or the guitar to fold up in the middle, when I pushed the pedal. Nope, worked just fine. Still using 'em. I like it. The balance is pretty good using my normal Nashville E9th set for the other gauges.
My Mullen regularly breaks more strings, .012's after about a half dozen sessions usually so I've not tried the larger string on it.
Proceed at your own risk though  I'm not saying I recommend it, just relating my own experience. |
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Benjamin Wolfram
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 2:29 pm
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Well I ended up just opening another fresh set of Cobra Coils just to get the .011 out of it because I realized how high the tension was on it and thought it wasn't such a bright idea. I'll just have to go get a couple of spares from a guitar shop to make up for it. The reason I broke it in the first place was that I put it on brand new and was stretching it, not really aware of just how tight it was already pulled by being in tune.
It was my first time re-stringing my pedal steel...quite the mission! |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 4:45 pm
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The best compromise is an .0115... 012 is too heavy for me, it makes the b pedal too stiff, and will decapitate you at close range if it pops...
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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bill dearmore
From:
Belton,Tx.,USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 5:23 pm
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I've used a .013 on my Zum for a number of years. When I had my Ritt back to the factory for additional levers I told Gary to please install a .013 on the 3rd spot...he tried two and said they both broke so...maybe not on a Ritt but certainly on a Zum.  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 5:27 pm
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There ya' go  |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 9:53 pm
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Jerry,
According to the data, a .012" string on a 24 1/4" scale length, tuned to A, will have a tension of 36.5 lbs, and a breaking tension of 40 lbs |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 15 Nov 2011 11:10 pm
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| ...that's assuming all strings are made from exactly the same type of steel, which I doubt very much. |
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