| Author |
Topic: Single coil hum is making me hate my steel |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
|
Posted 2 Nov 2011 2:12 pm |
|
Decade after decade of gigs all over the northeast.. Sometimes 6 or 7 days a week.. For about 35 years until severe tinnitus shut me down... Maybe twice in all those decades has the hum been so bad that it was really a problem... Thousands of live perfomances, and maybe once or twice have I had a major problem, and that includes LOTS of NYC gigs back in the day.... You guys want to ruin the classic sho bud sound with humbuckers, be my guest, but take it from me, a Bud with a humbucker does NOT have the Sho Bud sound.. Been there...... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 2 Nov 2011 2:16 pm
|
|
| I agree Bob. Your points, hum, tinnitus, heavy gig schedule, and the messing up of the wonderful ShoBud sound, are eggs ackley the points I would expound. |
|
|
|
Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
|
Posted 2 Nov 2011 3:07 pm
|
|
I have one of these that I used at a certain building that I played in. My single coil Emmons Pickups were not the problem just the wiring in the building.This did the trick but now I don't
 play there anymore so it stays in my case.
_________________
78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
|
|
|
Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
|
Posted 2 Nov 2011 3:10 pm
|
|
Bob: Sorry to hear about the tinnitus. I think that a lot of us wish that we knew about hearing protection back then. There are some really nice professionally fitted earplugs for musicians available these days (mine cost me $180 a few years ago). A worthwhile investment for any musician who is subjected to loud music...
I agree that single coil pickups should not be a problem at any venue designed for live music. However I have noticed that it is the small bars with the cheap wiring that are nightmares for anyone using single coil pickups. The bars bring in an interior designer who has them install dimmers on practically every light bulb in the place. What is even worse is when they use strings of Christmas lights for permanent lighting and have them hooked to a dimmer. 
Billy: I had tried the EHX Hum Debugger a few years ago with a regular guitar with P90 pickups, and liked how it cut the hum but did not like how it colored my sound. I ended up getting the original ISP Decimator pedal which IMO is more transparent at the lower settings, although it was not as effective as the EHX for eliminating the hum. I only tried the EHX pedal with a regular guitar; with several people here recommending it for steel guitar I ought to give it another shot. Thanks!
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
|
|
|
Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
|
Posted 3 Nov 2011 6:56 am
|
|
Doesn`t Lloyd Green have a BL 710 in his Bud nowadays ? I could be wrong but I think I read that somewhere....
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland |
|
|
|
Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
|
|
|
|
Alan Berdoulay
|
Posted 3 Nov 2011 5:32 pm
|
|
| I'll weigh in on the ehx. I play in a bar every Monday night. Small stage. Who knows whats going on with the electricity. I dont. All my guitars, sho buds and a push pull are single coil...and I like that. Tried em all. Several amps. High gain, low gain, stage right, stage left....Hum city. Plug in the hum debugger....all gone. If it affects the tone, it isn't much. A very worthy little pedal. |
|
|
|
Billy McCombs
From:
Bakersfield California, USA
|
Posted 3 Nov 2011 6:27 pm
|
|
Alan I used mine in the normal setting, there was something going on up in the higher register when it was in the strong setting that I did not like, but it does work well.
_________________
78 Emmons PP,Great tone.82 Emmons SKH #56 |
|
|
|
Dean Holman
From:
Branson MO
|
Posted 3 Nov 2011 8:06 pm
|
|
| Then what does a shobud sound like with a humbucker? |
|
|
|
Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
|
Posted 3 Nov 2011 8:23 pm Try a parametric?
|
|
Many of us run a parametric EQ to notch out feedback points in our sound systems.
I also do this with my Takoma ThunderChief (acoustic bass guitar) which is very resonant and will feedback without much instigation.
I have also pressed a parametric in to service a couple of times to get rid of hum and electrical noise. I set the bandwidth very narrow and they are nearly transparent (if they are well designed & made).
If you have ground lift switches on your gear they can can often eliminate a ground loop with the press of the switch.
Ground loops can be dealt with on short notice with a piece of wire and a couple of aligator clips between the offending devices (if you carry one or more in your kit). This is particularly common and often overlooked fix between instrument amps and the rack-rail on signal processing racks.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
|
|
|
Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 4 Nov 2011 1:21 am
|
|
Did I miss this issue? Did we already rule out a Speaker cable (unshielded cord) being used between guit. and amp?? That sure can ruin your day.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
|
|
|
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
|
Posted 4 Nov 2011 1:31 am
|
|
| Dean Holman wrote: |
| Then what does a shobud sound like with a humbucker? |
Sounds OK, but its more mellow, fuller, increased bottom and thicker mids if thats what you want. Sounds like a Bud with a humbucker.
The Sho Bud single coil pickup defines the characteristic sound of a great old sho bud.
Why don't we put Gibson humbuckers in all of our strats and teles so that THEY don't hum either?...
Can't go along with the "tone is in the guitar" crowd on this one.. Much of it is, but enough of the tone comes from the pickup so that it makes a big difference.
I owned a ProI with a 705 humbucker, and played guitar many times with a very good steel player that had a 12 String ProI with a GeorgeL... Nice sounding guitars, but very different from an unmolested Bud... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 5 Nov 2011 4:55 am
|
|
According to the EHX site, the Debugger deals with odd and/or even harmonics. The propaganda doesn't state anything about 60 cycle hum, but if it works for that it's great.
I love my MosValve stuff, but I get a "halo", sort of a third tone sometimes with it. Hardly audible in a band situation, but a slightly noticeable level at solo practice.
I wonder if it works for that?
One of the great things about the old SE70 Boss 1/2 rack multi-fx unit is that is has 2 modes of hum cancelling besides the normal noise suppression. One for 50 cycle and one for 60 cycle. It completely eliminates the single coil hum you get at wide open pedal. Totally quiet. If any of you have one of these still lying around, try it.
The downside of this is that it's a dedicated patch setting and none of the other effects are available. |
|
|
|
Alan Berdoulay
|
Posted 5 Nov 2011 5:33 am
|
|
| The ehx is not transparent. I use it playing out. Guitar, bass and drums. It's been a simple solution (so far) in places where the house electricity is sketchy at best. It's not the end all. |
|
|
|
Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
|
Posted 1 Mar 2012 7:53 pm
|
|
One room I play several times a year is Hill Country BBQ in Wash DC. Very modern pa and lighting- but horrible hum (stage right especially). A night there with a fender stringmaster and another with single coils on my Emmons SKH convinced me to put BL 705s on the Emmons. Obviously I won't change pickups on the stringmaster, but I end up taking a PSG with humbuckers on those gigs where I would normally take the fender- just because of the damn hum. I really hate it.
When I was just getting started playing I got a lot of hum in my practice room. I had an old MSA with single coils. I just found it really depressing to step on the pedal and get that nasty hum- it really interfered with my learning to play.
I have E66s on one emmons and 705s on the other. Not sure which I prefer. They both sound good to me.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 1 Mar 2012 9:09 pm
|
|
One more argument for all builders to have slide in pickup systems like Sierra and later MSA guitars. Like single coils? Use one. Too much hum? Slide it out and slide in a humbucker. Problem most likely solved. Slide in pickups should have been standard on all guitars decades ago.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 12:50 am This goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway:
|
|
Saying "It's not a problem for me" really doesn't do much to help the guy who is having a problem. 
I also like single-coils, but the tiny bit of tone loss I may get with humbuckers isn't really enough to worry about. I'd rather listen to a good player with a clean sound than a great player whose amp sounds like an arc welder. 
YMMV |
|
|
|
Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 5:10 am
|
|
| Quote: |
Slide in pickups should have been standard on all guitars decades ago.
|
I agree Richard. We will probably never see that happen though. The concept has been around for quite awhile and look how few builders have shown any inclination to go that way. Every year there are new builders. Every year established builders offer new models. Hardly anyone has gone with that option. It doesn't look promising for universal quick change pickups. |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 10:43 am
|
|
Bill M. I agree. It's a shame though. Maybe there are patent issues.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 12:23 pm
|
|
If I may through my two cents in. I am a single coil guy too. Tried all the humbuckers out there and didn't like any of them.
I finally broke down and tried an Alumitone and it's the only one that sounds as good as single coils. Having said that all single are not created equally. Emmons and True Tones are very similar. Sho-Bud pickups are different from era to era. In you situation I would suggest that you try the Alumitone. These pickups are designed to amplify the natural sound of your guitar.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
|
|
|
Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 12:37 pm
|
|
Johnny, I have an Alumitone on my guitar now. It is good but not quite "it" for me and my homebuilt.
My favorite so far is a single coil that I wound to about 14.5K It gives me the best tone, no question in my ears and a few others.
Sure, it hums a bit, but then my shop is bad for hum anyway. I suspect a transformer 200' from my house is the culprit.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
|
|
|
Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 12:55 pm
|
|
I`ve been playing an MSA Legend for six months now and I think the pup quick change feature is great ! I have three pick ups, a standard Truetone, an underwound TT and an Alumitone. Every occasion covered !
Builders should get together and decide on a standard mount for quick change pups so they would be interchangeable between brands too...
How about it ? 
BTW, thanks Johnny for building such a great instrument !
Are you still with MSA ?
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland |
|
|
|
Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
|
Posted 2 Mar 2012 1:59 pm
|
|
Bent, I would tend to agree with you when comparing to a single coil wound @ 14.5. I love pickups wound that low but most don't and are really comparing to single coils wound 17.5-20.0k.
Ollie, I'm glad that you are enjoying your Legend. I enjoyed putting it together for you. I am not working at MSA at the present time. My playing schedule got busier and I decided to just do this for a while. I may reopen my repair shop at some point.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
|
|
|
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
|
Posted 4 Mar 2012 4:53 pm
|
|
I put an Alumintone in a Fender 400. It's a nice sounding pickup. I could get used to it.
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
|
|
|
Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
|
Posted 5 Mar 2012 6:41 pm
|
|
| Bent Romnes wrote: |
My favorite so far is a single coil that I wound to about 14.5K It gives me the best tone, no question in my ears and a few others.
Sure, it hums a bit, but then my shop is bad for hum anyway. I suspect a transformer 200' from my house is the culprit. |
A report to the FCC about that transformer might take care of the problem at your shop. They take spirious RF interference seriously (I am a Ham operator and we discuss tis problem often).
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
|
|
|
