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Topic: What is push/pull and how does it relate to tone? |
Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 3:05 pm |
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I am playing non pedal only and have touched a pedal steel just once years ago so I don't really know about them so muhc.
What is push/pull and how does it relate to tone?
_________________
Brian |
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Clinton Damron
From:
Cleburne Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 3:52 pm
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| I had the same question just last week. From what I picked up from the explanation is that push/pull relates to either how the knee levers or pedals operate. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 4:13 pm
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Mechanically, see Push-Pull vs All-Pull. All-Pull steels have the more capable changer, allowing for split-tuning and compensators for instance - something that is pretty difficult to implement on Push-Pull steels.
Tonally it is the other way round, in that the fewer/simpler and heavier parts in a Push-Pull can - when well tuned to resonate with the end-plate/body - transfer more sympathetic vibrations between strings and body than All-Pull changers can. Thus a Push-Pull tends to have a more "massive" tone and better sustain than an All-Pull. |
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Steve Alcott
From:
New York, New York, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 8:24 pm
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| (after putting on hard hat and padded jacket) Or so they say. (runs away) |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 10:41 pm
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Hi Brian,
Your question is probably the single most controversial question ever asked regarding steel-guitar.
The push-pull system is a design of changer from the Emmons company which used a split-finger to achieve raises and lowers and, due to the design, it had two unique properties - raises always won out over lowers (on the same string) and the mechanism necessarily required slack in the rods to allow lowers to hit the stops without being impeded (held up short) by the raise-rods. Changes to the copedent require a lot of work to implement. A complex copedent requires a heck of a lot of hard work on the undercarriage and it gets awfully crowded down there.
A more "primitive" cousin, the pull-release mechanism, shares these unique traits. (NB: primitive does not imply useless - the axe is a primitive tool, yet I know of nothing better-suited to splitting firewood and millions of "primitive" axes are used for this purpose to this very day!)
By comparison, the all-pull mechanism is able to balance a raise and a lower (on the same string) to achieve the middle note (known as a split) and changes to the copedent are relatively easy to implement. By design the pedal-travel is shorter and minimal slack is required. They are by far the commonest changer design in use today, even though there are subtle - and not so subtle - differences between manufacturers of a mechanism which does the same thing no matter who built it.
Now, the tone thing. This is the figurative can-of-worms. The tone of a push-pull steel, properly set up, is distinctive and has a quality all its own. So is that of a pull-release (I have one) and it is something to hear when the guitar has been properly tuned and set up. You'll hear talk of the Emmons growl in the lower-register, bell-like highs and sustain from here to Doomsday.
However, the tone of modern all-pull steels is every bit as notable, and in the hands of a competent player, the great majority of us can't tell the difference. There are those fortunate individuals who can tell the difference...I'm not one of them. I like the tone from my all-pull steels as much as I like the tone of my "primitive" pull-release Marlen. However, they are different.
The late John Hughey was once asked about tone and the steel-guitar. He replied tone is in the hands. For my money, that's as good an insight into tone of the steel-guitar as you're likely to get anywhere...irrespective of what changer is used.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Posted 17 Oct 2011 5:43 pm
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Wow! Thanks to all who responded. PM's too. Makes more sense to me now.
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Brian |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2011 5:55 am
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Wow, Ned nailed it.
I own both a Push Pull and two All-Pulls.
I love them all, for different reasons. There is no "best".
Brian, I used my "Admin Super Powers" to change your title of this thread. Using descriptive titles helps future searchers. I wouldn't want anyone with the same question to miss Ned's response. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 18 Oct 2011 7:09 am
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| Joey Ace wrote: |
I own both a Push Pull and two All-Pulls. I love them all, for different reasons. There is no "best". |
exactly right! |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 22 Oct 2011 7:22 am
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| Joey Ace wrote: |
Wow, Ned nailed it.
I own both a Push Pull and two All-Pulls.
I love them all, for different reasons. There is no "best".
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Yes, and no. Is there a world-wide, absolute, objective "best?" No, because everyone has their own criteria upon which they evaluate a particular guitar. But within a given number of guitars owned or evaluated by an individual, there most certainly can be a "best," objectively selected within the group using subjective criteria.
Personally, I have owned so many steel guitars I've lost count, but it's certainly numbered in the several dozens. Some I've "loved," some I've "liked," some I've only "tolerated." Some I've truly regretted parting with, some I've gladly yielded ownership to other players.
Currently I have 3 push-pulls and two all-pull guitars. My PPs are all set up to mechanically perform flawlessly (kudos to Bobby Bowman and Mike Cass), so the only issue for me is tone and the sound comparison between the 5 guitars in question.
That said, I have the sound of the Emmons Original in my head and I can't get it out... nor do I have any desire to do so; it's there for the rest of my days as a player.
My heart is stingier than Joey's. I do "love" my 3 PPs, but I only "like" my Legrande and my Sho-Bud. There have been precious few all-pull guitars that have affected me like my PPs have, one notable exception being Danny Hawk's 1973 LDG.
Currently my gigging guitar is a 1983 Emmons Original. I rotate my gigging guitars because benign neglect is still neglect. Tools are meant to be used and guitars are meant to be played. My mid-60's wraparounds purr like kittens, my 1983 horn barks like a big dog. Either way, they've never turned on me.
So, what I've just used a humongous amount of verbiage to say is what we proabably all know anyway: there most definitely is a "best" in the limited micro world, but not in the expansive "macro."
Just sayin'... your mileage may vary, and prob'ly does.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 22 Oct 2011 8:13 am
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I agree w/ ya Herb.....The Emmons p/p is the "Gold Standard" by which all other guitars are judged, but some folks just don't recognize that to be true. Hence....There is no "best guitar, it's purely subjective.
For me my 79 p/p D-10 is the best sounding guitar I own. I totally rebuilt it and it plays effortlessly, but it is heavy!
Zum gives a reasonable facsimile of the p/p sound (more so than anything else I've tried). So I switched over to a Zum U-12 (which I just got done rebuilding ) to spare my 60+ year back. Herb, I just bought a bass boat and I don't want any back issues to screw up next season.......meanwhile the salmon and steelhead are bitin' good 
The tone is pretty close to my p/p using the stock p/u. I have an Emmons 12 st p/u that Ron Jr wound for me which will be installed after the PDX jam. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Oct 2011 9:04 am
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having two old pp's and an old all pull zum i have a hard time distinguishing which is which in a recording. the zum has emmons pickups..one emmons has the zum pickups.
the emmons' play very well (thanks to me) and are slightly heavier. the zum is the most versatile having split tuning and slightly quicker/smoother mechanics. i could get by with any one of them. i try to play all of them at times so none feel left out. i would say go with a fairly modern all pull until you've got enough time and experience under your belt that you can discern slight tonal discrepancies. |
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