What does this part do?

[Aaron Fay]

I just got a Link II PSG which I'm told is built like an MSA. I talked to the manufacturer (Wayne Link) and found out it's mostly set up like an Emmons (I think) but the knee levers are backwards, my left knees change my E's up and down.

The point! My RKL raises the first string a half step, which I haven't found useful up to this point, so I started running it up to raise a full step (raise to the Maj 3rd from the 2nd seems so much more useful). I couldn't get it to tune properly and started looking at the linkage underneath, then I ran it back down to where it was and suddenly it started behaving like it raised that string a whole step. Another look underneath showed that the little collar (?) was catching on one of the metal sides on the changer (I'm not sure what they're called), and when it didn't catch (it squeezed in between) the knee lever moved the string a whole step, when it did catch, it moved a half step (but not quite perfectly in tune).

My question is, what is that little collar supposed to do? I see another one on another rod, but it doesn't touch anything regardless of whether the rod is in or out.

Pictures:





In the second picture, when I let off the RKL lever, sometimes the collar squeezes in between those plates a bit, and sometimes it catches. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Aaron

[Aaron Fay]

I moved it, assuming it's not doing what it's supposed to. I *think* what it's for is to keep the levers from going back too far, maybe as more of a convenience than necessity. I'll contact Wayne and ask about it.

Thanks for looking.

Aaron

[Aaron Fay]

Bada boom! That knee lever just got useful

Aaron

[Russ Wever]

. . an attempt on getting a split or a half-tone stopper.
Not the right way to do it - or some parts (spring and
half-stop rod) are missing.

Not at all.

The purpose of this collar is to prevent the pullrod that it
is on from protruding from the endplates tuning window
when the knee lever is 'folded up' so that when you place
the guitar in its case you won't inadvertantly bend the
pullrod on the interior of the case.

Proper placement of this collar is such that is near enough
to the changers scissor to pervent the pullrod from excess-
ively protruding yet far enough from the changers scissor
to prevent interference (as shown in your picture)
with the scissor.

~Russ

[Aaron Fay]

Thank you Russ! I see that when I fold up that lever, the little collar doesn't do it's job, the rounded edge (and probably years of folding) seem to help the little collar squeeze in between the 'scissors'. The folding action is a little stiff so now that I know what it does, I can work on it.

Thanks for your input.

Aaron

[Will Cowell]

Aaron, I have a half-step raise on my 1 & 7 strings, and I think it's brilliant. It allows me to do scale note sequences based on the use of the A&F form of a major chord, when the note would otherwise be a half-step flat - usually when there is an accidental, but it happens often enough that it's a boon. And of course it's useable to get a dominant 7th when using A&B pedals.

So maybe it's worth thinking a bit more about that setup as is before changing it!

Will Cowell
Huntingdon, UK

[Mike Perlowin]

I agree with Will. The whole step raise just gives you a lick.(Admittedly a nice one.) But the half step raise increases the guitar's vocabulary of scales and chords.

Generally, it doesn't matter which changes are on what knee lever, but this is the exception in my opinion. I believe that the 1st and 7th string half step raise belongs on a vertical. The reason is tat using the vertical by itself is an awkward and difficult motion, but if you're pressing down on a pedal, you have some leverage against it.

It's a matter of ergonomics. Verticals are easier to use if you're also pressing down one or 2 pedals.

This change is rarely used by itself. It's usually used in conjunction with the B pedal, sometimes with the A pedal and the E-F raise. It makes sense to put a change on the vertical that's used in conjunction with the pedals.

[Aaron Fay]

Verticals, don't have those, but they sound fun. I always wondered how to get more than 4 knee levers.

Thanks for the feedback guys, my specific case is: Garth Brooks - That Summer. The opening run is super-simple walk up the triad with a drone on the 3rd dropped to the 2. I'm currently playing that in the A position, like so:

Code: Select all

1_____________5K--5_____5_____
2_____________________________ 
3__________5__________________ 
4_______5____________5________ 
5____5________________________ 
6_____________________________ 
7_____________________________ 
8_____________________________
9_____________________________ 
10____________________________ 

If my RKL didn't raise the 1 a whole step, I can't seem to find another good place to make that riff. It's not a show stopper, I'm just wondering, is there some other pattern that makes this riff easy, an inversion higher up? I can't seem to find another place that nicely matches the 3rds in the riff...

Thanks a bunch!
Aaron

PS: is there an easier way to write out tablature for steel? That was a pain...

[Bent Romnes]

Aaron, I found those little collars to be a PITA. I think it is best to eliminate them and instead, if you are handy, install a stopper on the cross shaft that lets the knee lever come back only enough to bring the string back to neutral. If you decide to keep the collars, do what Russ said and it should be ok.

[Bill Dobkins]

This is my half stop idea. It works very well.

[John Polstra]

Aaron, I have a half-step raise on my 1 & 7 strings, and I think it's brilliant. It allows me to do scale note sequences based on the use of the A&F form of a major chord, when the note would otherwise be a half-step flat - usually when there is an accidental, but it happens often enough that it's a boon.

Will, I don't quite understand that. Could you give us an example? The root of the open A+F major chord is C#. So if you raise strings 1 and 7 a half step, you get the flatted 5 of the scale -- not a note I use very often, except maybe for a blues scale. I have a feeling I'm not getting your meaning here.

And of course it's useable to get a dominant 7th when using A&B pedals.

I use mine a lot for that -- sometimes for chords, but mostly for licks. I wouldn't want to give it up, but it would be nice to find another use for that change.

John

[Mike Perlowin]

The root of the open A+F major chord is C#. So if you raise strings 1 and 7 a half step, you get the flatted 5 of the scale -- not a note I use very often

The flatted 5th works as a non chordal tone on a 4 chord. (For instance the note B, in an F chord when you're playing in C) It has to be resolved, either up or down, (in this case to C or A) but it's used this way fairly often and you've heard it many times in many songs. Moon River and the Tara theme from Gone With the Wind come to mind off hand.

[John Polstra]

Thanks, Mike. That cleared it right up for me.

John

[Dirk Weaver]

I've found the half raise on the first string is useful for the intro to Merle's Swinging Doors, Tonight the Bottle Let Me Down, and also the noodling steel part at the top of Jamey Johnson's High Cost of Living, among other tunes. The guitar I just bought has only a full step raise on the F#'s, so I'm having to kinda feel the halfway mark with my ear. I'm pondering how to add a half stop, because both raises, half and whole, are cool to have. Would that be hard to do?

[Aaron Fay]

Thanks for all the comments guys! I'm new to the steel but have been gigging on bass for several years, and I have a good handle on music, so I'm mostly trying to accomplish certain goals, meaning learning songs that I fell in love with because of the steel guitar.

I changed that first string to raise a full step and it works well for me right now, there are a couple parts in "That Summer - Garth Brooks" and "Welcome to the Future - Brad Paisley" where it works great for the steel break. That being said, I see the value in the half-step raise, I wonder, is a 'half stop' the solution? Will that work on an all-pull guitar? I found a video here that shows a setup on the rods: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tlXL6eYaAQ

Otherwise, I'm thinking about adding a 4th pedal since my guitar is already set up for it, should I just wire in pedal D to do a full tone raise on string 1? What do you guys use pedal D for (the ones that have it)?

Thanks again!
Aaron

[Mike Perlowin]

Otherwise, I'm thinking about adding a 4th pedal since my guitar is already set up for it, should I just wire in pedal D to do a full tone raise on string 1? What do you guys use pedal D for (the ones that have it)?

We talked about this 2 weeks ago.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=212500

But Aaron, I suggest you learn as much as you can with the standard 3 pedals before adding a 4th.

[Aaron Fay]

We talked about this 2 weeks ago.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=212500

But Aaron, I suggest you learn as much as you can with the standard 3 pedals before adding a 4th.

Hi Mike,

I read that post, quite interesting. My Link II is rigged for a 4th pedal to the right of C, not left of A. I imagine before rigging up that pedal I would want to understand how to use it in conjunction with my C pedal, correct? Most copedants don't really go beyond ABC, is there a standard setup for D pedal?

Thanks again,
Aaron

[Tony Glassman]

The purpose of this collar is to prevent the pullrod that it
is on from protruding from the endplates tuning window
when the knee lever is 'folded up' so that when you place
the guitar in its case you won't inadvertantly bend the
pullrod on the interior of the case.

Proper placement of this collar is such that is near enough
to the changers scissor to pervent the pullrod from excess-
ively protruding yet far enough from the changers scissor
to prevent interference (as shown in your picture)
with the scissor.

~Russ

If you really wan to be sure that the collar never slides between those two adjacent changer fingers, place a small nylon washer between the collar and the scissors. The increased diameter will not allow the collar to pass between the fingers no matter what.

[Mike Perlowin]

Aaron, You could add the Franklin pedal or raise the G# strings to Bb, but again I say, first things first. You need learn to play with the basic 3 pedals and knee levers before you start thinking about the more exotic changes.

[Aaron Fay]

If you really wan to be sure that the collar never slides between those two adjacent changer fingers, place a small nylon washer between the collar and the scissors. The increased diameter will not allow the collar to pass between the fingers no matter what.

Excellent suggestion, I believe I will do just that.

Aaron, You could add the Franklin pedal or raise the G# strings to Bb, but again I say, first things first. You need learn to play with the basic 3 pedals and knee levers before you start thinking about the more exotic changes.

Sound advice, thank you for your feedback.

Aaron

[Aaron Fay]

Mickey Adams is doing exactly what I want in this video, so it seems raising string 1 a half- or whole-tone is a matter of preference...

Based on watching Mickey's videos (god bless you Mickey for all your videos) it appears my setup is exactly the same in terms of knee levers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7k69nLM ... ideo_title

Aaron