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Topic: String gauge question. |
Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 5:18 am |
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Being given the opportunity (because a new, young music minister at church thinks that steel just doesn't fit his "vision") to attempt venturing into a different style realm... what gauge string would you suggest for a low "E" (electric guitar "E") on an E9 neck? I tend to like a little heavy; I use an .038 for my "B"...
_________________
Mikey D... H.S.P.
Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.
http://www.steelharp.com
http://www.thesessionplayers.com/douchette.html
(other things you can ask about here)
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o54/Steelharp/ |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 5:24 am
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Wait, wait....are you telling us that you're new young music minister doesn't appreciate Michael Douchette on steel?????? Inconceivable
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe.
Last edited by Rick Barnhart on 7 Sep 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 5:32 am
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I would use something in the .048 to .056 range. I have a g# below my B, the B is a .038 and the G# is a .046. Logically a .056 would probably feel right if it were on a 12 string, but you're using a 10? Are you thinking of moving the D out and replacing it with the B? If you are just replacing the B with an E I'd shoot for a .042. I guess knowing what the next highest note will be helps decide what to use, if nothing else but for feel. The string itself could be anything "normal" in a electric guitar set.Sorry for talking an a circle, I'm still low on coffee 
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 6:36 am
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Mikey -
Ya just might want to pay a visit to the following link in an effort to take some of the guesswork out of your decision:
http://liutaiomottola.com/
His technical section includes a reference to D'Addario's site where information is given on a wide variety of strings including the "unit weight" of a string used in an interactive calculation. One can first pick a string frequency (from an included chart) and, knowing the scale length, calculate (interactively by the site) the tension etc.. Just plug in the numbers and get an instant answer.
You might plug in some numbers for string guages that you already use in an effort to get an idea of the tension of those strings. Given those numbers, ya can't go wrong in picking a guage that provides the same approximate tension.
Hope this helps.
Richard |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 7:53 am
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I generally try to equalize string tension when going to a different tuning, which I do quite a lot on guitar. That D'Addario chart that Richard mentions is useful - http://www.daddariostrings.com/Resources/JDCDAD/images/tension_chart.pdf
If you look at the XL Nickelplated Round Wound, you'll see that that 0.038 tuned to B at their nominal scale length (25-1/2") is 27.2 lb, and if you go down to the heavier gauge strings tuned to E, you'll see 0.054 at 24.6 lb, 0.056 at 26.3 lb, and 0.059 at 29.3 lb. So the closest is 0.056 as Rick says.
Looking at the XLS Stainless Round Wound, you have 0.038 tuned to B as 28.5 lb, and 0.054 and 0.056 tuned to E as 25.8 and 27.6 respectively. So for either, the 56 looks like the closest match.
The string tension also depends on how the string is wound - my experience is that the core/winding ratio matters - I find larger core/winding ratio gives more tension. But if you're talking about the same string type, I doubt it would affect the tension ratio between strings all that much. Scale length affects this also, but again, if you're comparing comparable strings on the same scale length, it shouldn't affect the tension ratio much either.
I think this chart is practically useful - for example, I have felt that 0.068 or 0.070 tuned to low B (bottom string of a 12-string universal) is a little floppy, and sure enough, 0.068 has lower tension (21.7 at B). To bring that up to the mid-high 20 lb range moves the gauge up to nickel round wound 0.072 (24.1 lb), 0.074 (25.3 lb), or even up to 0.080 (29.5 lb). In fact, those higher gauges feel better to me on that low B. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 6:13 pm
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Well, I have to leave the "lowest" string the lowest, therefore, I'd make the E a .030 or .032 if it was to replace the D and keep the .038 B. If you do the inside-out thing, it would work, but I think, would feel wrong. If you are gonna replace the D with anything put the B there, with a pull up to D (it works on a universal tuning) and put the E in the 10th spot, It gives you a proper sounding guitar 5th chord too. You can't create a pull? If not, I'd use the .030 in #9. I like the uni thing, and have my 10 string set up as a sort of uni. H-L F# D# G# E B G# F# E B G# I play blues, rock, country and all sorts of stuff with this tuning. I really like the guitar-like possibilities with the low end. I can do a lot of typical rock chording. I mean I play with some guys that do Rolling Stones, Doors, Hendrix, Steve Earl, Clapton, Marley, Stevie Ray...It gets it all done. Sorry if I'm actually answering in a way that is outside the real need you're looking to, or the mechanics of the guitar.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 3:33 am
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Rick, it's all good, bro, and I appreciate the input. The reason I'm trying this, and the method of doing it... the paradigm at our church is shifting big time. The new worship leader doesn't "get" steel. He would like a 2nd electric, for rhythm. Because the music doesn't really require that dominant 7th that the 9th gives, I am going to try the low "E" so that I can give him the rhythmic, power chord crunch on 10, 9, and 8 that he'll be familiar with.
My reason for not putting it on the 10th string is that I don't want to change my normal chord grouping; church will likely be the ONLY place I will be using the low "E," strum the guitar type thing, and I don't want to mess with my head when I'm playing my other guitars in regular playing situations.
_________________
Mikey D... H.S.P.
Music hath the charm to soothe a savage beast, but I'd try a 10mm first.
http://www.steelharp.com
http://www.thesessionplayers.com/douchette.html
(other things you can ask about here)
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o54/Steelharp/ |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 5:37 am
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Dave Mudgett -
I have missed something along the way. Try as I might, I've been unable to unearth the core/winding ratios of the various manufacturers. The only "reference" that I've seen aludes to a number of 0.8 to 0.9. Do you have a reference that is a heckuva lot more definitive than that?
My thanks,
Richard |
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David Dixon
From:
Gadsden, Alabama
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 7:07 am
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Mikey,
Take your new E string and wrap it around his neck. Play what you play. You are a great player, he will learn to appreciate greatness. That is my suggestion.
_________________
77 Emmons Push Pull, Emmons Legrande II Nashville 400 (Mod), Nashville 400 (Fox Mod) Walker Stereo Steel, TC Effects, BJS Bar |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 9:26 am
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Richard - nor have I seen such a reference. If I want to know (and sometimes I do), I measure it myself with a micrometer. If the winding goes all the way to the end, I unwind some windings, then measure the core diameter and the wound diameter. But I've never tried to compile that info.
I agree that this kind of info might be useful. For example, if I want to go to a heavier gauge string and minimize the tension increase, I look for a set with a lower core/winding ratio, or vice versa for going to a lighter gauge set with minimal tension change.
This is purely anecdotal - I've only done this on a handful of sets and didn't do it methodically - but I noticed that the SIT sets I measured had a bit smaller cores than comparable sets I measured like GHS; and the Dean Markleys I've measured had a bit larger cores than typical. That was reflected in my perception of how tight and beefy the strings were. FWIW, I love those SITs on a twangin', crazy-string-bending Telecaster - I try other things, but have always come back for the last 25 years. But on a jazzy-bluesy Les Paul with P-90s, I tried a set of those Markleys that I really liked better than anything else I've tried. But next time I fiddle with this, I'll write 'em down. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 8:22 pm
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The amp won't know that the 9th string is lower than the 10th, try a .o42 it'll feel pretty natural, and still be a "normal" gauge for a "low" E.
BTW, I'm a redevelopment / renewal pastor for the Christian Church (DOC) and I feel for you!
New folks have one of two ways of thinking: one, they have a "vision" of how people will serve their "vision". Or, they stop and listen to what IS going on, and then they help the present situation to be more faithful in its own vision. It is stressful to deal with a pastor who has a predetermined idea of what we should be doing, and a deaf ear to our talents. Be strong! Actually, your open attitude to changing your tuning is a testament to your committment to the hope of the church being both unified and able to reach the people.
Change the tuning and learn a Cream song or something to wig them completely out! 
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 10 Sep 2011 3:51 pm
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Hey Mike,
Set up, sit down, tune up, play what you feel.
I feel for you, I had a similar predicament early on, finally had to give it up to keep peace.
Fast forward a couple years, new Choir/music director, she coaxed me into rejoining the music staff, having the time of my life, don't remember ever enjoying playing like now.
God's blessings on whatever you do.BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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... I don't think it's the