Condition of vintage steel guitars

[Butch Pytko]

Just thought I would comment about my recent on-going search for a vintage non-pedal steel guitar. I've seen pictures of guitars in almost like-new condition, however, I've really been SICKENED by the beat-up ones. I guess I should remember the like-new ones, but for some reason, the beat-up ones stick in my mind! I wonder--why has this poor guitar ended-up in this state? I know it's lack of care, but why was it apparently perpetuated thru many years up to this point in time? I've played steel guitar in different bands thru the years--played in the most awful, horrible, DIVES--conceived by man--and yet, my equipment looks in like-new condition, compared to what I've seen recently on the internet. Of course for me, I take care of my guitars--cleaning & polishing with proper maintenance when required. Is it asking too much for others to have the same care ethic?

One other thing I'd like to point-out--even here on the forum. I've really noticed when someone has a guitar for sale--SOME go ahead & take a picture of a guitar that's not even cleaned-up! These new digital cameras have such fantastic sharpness, that you can very easily see the seller didn't even bother to clean the guitar-up! This goes along with some of the descriptive comments I can't stand to read, such as the worst of all--"THIS GUITAR NEEDS TO BE CLEANED".

For what it's worth I thought I'd make these comments. For all of you fellow steel players out there who have the same care ethic that I have--keep-up the good work!!!!!!

[Bob Russell]

Sadly, steel guitars frequently come into the hands of people who don't understand them or value them. Seems especially true for old guitars that aren't Fenders or Gibsons, which even the most dimwitted of rock guitarists will recognize as having some value. Makes me want to start a rescue mission. If I had enough money, my house would probably look like the Island of Misfit Toys...

[Hal Braun]

Personally, I like the dirty ones.. they tend to cost less.. and I can clean them. Honest wear is another story.. I do not expect a 50's guitar to be pristine.. and if it is.. I KNOW it's more expensive.

I do expect the operating condition of the guitar to be sound.. but the appearance I am a lot more flexible on.

My personal guitars are kept very clean, etc. but even there I worry that I might be a little "over protective" (translate "anal") and that I would have an easier, more fun time if I just looked at it as a tool and used it as such!

[Ron Whitfield]

Ugly old steels often equal great tone.

[Frank James Pracher]

Keep in mind alot of these instrument are 60 + years old. That's alot of time to pick up scars. ( I am only 36 and I have a few). I don't mind honest play wear on a guitar. My plum Bel-tone (Magnatone) has lots of scratches in the painted on fretboard but it is by far my favorite. My Dickerson has a few dents and scratches here and there. The original owners wife sold it to me after he died, She said he played it almost everyday. It was still tuned up to C6th when I got it. He obviously loved this guitar but in 70 years things happen.
Don't overlook an old war horse. There is lot's of music left in them!

[Doug Beaumier]

I like to see some good, honest wear on an old guitar or an old amp... Not abuse, but player wear. It adds character and shows some of the history of the guitar. Super clean guitars are always worth more, and I've owned several mint steels and amps, but they are never as "comfortable" to play as the ones with a little bit of wear on them IMO.

[David Soreff]

Doug....you just summed up exactly what I wanted to say. For me personally, I don't really trust something that doesn't have a few miles on it. (and that has to do with steel guitars and a few other things as well)

[Jason Hull]

I love it when people abuse their instruments, 'cause I fix them for a living!

[chas smith]

If the guitar looks like it was barely ever played, it might be because it didn't sound very good.

[Alan Brookes]

I've seen some real horrors over the years, like a Fender Stringmaster painted on the top only, with paint dripping down the sides and holes cut into the body,
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... estoration

a Fender cable steel that had been left in a flooded basement until the body rotted,
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... estoration


many steels stripped of pickups, with broken machine heads, some with a mismatch of various tuners on the same instrument, broken or missing volume control knobs,
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 43&start=0

a Rickenbacker covered in stickers, not to mention pedal steels with the mechanism removed. I could go on and on. I always wonder what sort of thinking led to the abuse.
Here's a rare early Gibson that I picked up yesterday. What possible use could anyone have for the parts that were removed?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

[Bill Creller]

My National guitars from 1950 when I bought them new, are in good shape yet, but the amp I bought with them is really rough after being all over Europe with me in the early 50s. And it's still the best sounding amp I own ! It does have "character" for sure....

I see that prices of lap steels on Ebay are really getting nuts, and folks who buy at those prices are nuts too

[Bob Russell]

Alan, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not normal playing wear, which is to be expected, but flat-out abuse and neglect. My Vega is 63 years old and certainly has its share of "soul marks", as we used to call 'em. It's in great shape for something that was brand-new in 1948, though; somebody took pretty good care of it through the years.

[Steve Ahola]

Alan:
That is quite a collection of crap!

You asked why someone would strip parts from an old Gibson console model? I would assume to refurbish another one with a body in a better condition. Or maybe to build a more portable single neck model. (Note: rather than strip a console grande get a pre-50's Century 8 instead. If the pickup is too hot get a Lollar Console Grande pickup that measures 7.9k ohms.)

You also asked why someone would strip the undercarriage from a pedal steel guitar. Some of those old pedal steels have undercarriages that are junk although the wooden cabinet might have a great tone. A pro would have the obsolete undercarriage replaced with modern mechanisms. Or an amateur like me might just remove the undercarriage and convert it into a non-pedal steel (as has been recommended here for those old Mavericks).

BTW a lot of those steels in really bad condition may have been inherited or otherwise acquired by someone who was not aware of their value so they left them in a leaky basement, garage or barn. Looking at vintage guitars and amps most of the ones in good condition have already found new owners who treat them with respect. Although there still are some old-timers around who finally part with their cherished instruments if they need to downsize, move into a rest home or god forbid pass away.

Steve Ahola

[CrowBear Schmitt]

what Doug B wrote

[Butch Pytko]

Guys, what I MEANT & I should of been more clear--is out-right DESTRUCTIVE ABUSE! NOT normal playing wear after 50/60+ years.

Alan--thanks so much for your excellent pictorial post. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I rest my case!

[John Billings]

Sometimes guitars go thru generations of kids too.
I have a '57 Strat. Beat up! It was spray painted black when I got it. Removed the black to find San Marino Blue as the original color. Some one had refinished the neck,,, with a brush. Pickguard is from a '61.
A good friend is a vintage dealer and collector. He played my Strat, and declared it to be much, much better than the pristine Fifties Strats he'd collected.

[Pete Blakeslee]

Legend has it that Bobby Koefer buried this guitar in Alaska when he quit playing for a while. Still sounds great!




Pete Blakeslee

[Doug Beaumier]

Neglect:



Abuse:

[John Billings]

Guy musta wanted a pedal steel really badly!

[Alan Brookes]

The good thing is that most can be restored, not by professionals, because the number of hours needed makes them an unviable proposition, but with the loving care of enthusiasts who just want to see them brought back to life and played again.

This is what the Fender Stringmaster looks like now I've restored it.



And this is what the National New Yorker now looks like.

[S.M. Johnson]

You are obviously 'one truly skilled craftsman' that takes great pride in your work.

You are to be congratulated.........For the sake of music, please keep up the great work.

[Doug Beaumier]

Guy musta wanted a pedal steel really badly!

Yes, and he succeeded... he made it really badly!

[Alan Brookes]

Doug, that guitar is fixable.

[Steve Ahola]

Amazing job of restoring those steels, Alan. As you said if someone was to pay a professional to do the work the price would have been astronomical. ("Billions and billions and billions" as Carl Sagan would say).

And yes the damage that stupid and/or clueless guitarists can do to equipment is despicable. I hate to tell people about the Gibson Melody Maker I bought in 1969 which was my first real guitar. Of course I painted it up psychedelic (didn't we all?) but when I tried to remove the acrylic paint later I gouged the body, so what the heck I decided to strip all of the finish and carved a very abstract bird out of the upper bout.

To add insult to injury I later had the body routed out to replace the single skinny pickup with a humbucker (yes I really wanted a Les Paul very badly). And then had it routed out for a second humbucker a year later. "Are you SURE you want me to do this?" "Yes!"

That Melody Maker was so cool before I completely butchered it up... R.I.P.

Steve Ahola

[Will Houston]

Wow!!! nice work Alan.