Gold Tone PBKG (square neck, flat-top guitar)

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 26 Jul 2011 3:44 pm

So I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on/experience with these guitars. Or maybe someone could point me to a previous discussion here on the the Forum? I only found one and the topic shifted almost immediately to 8-string resos.

ciao,
LP

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 26 Jul 2011 4:06 pm

If you like the sound of the older Oahu type square neck acoustic Hawaiian guitars, this is a great guitar for you. It sounds pretty much like a really good acoustic guitar with a nut extender.

I think they're a nice addition to your sonic arsenal. It won't replace your resophonic guitar, but it's a good sound by itself.

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 26 Jul 2011 4:32 pm

Hey Brad,

Thanks! That's actually exactly the response I was hoping to hear!

I have a cheap old Oahu. You know the type - birch plywood, painted "binding", cast aluminum bridge bolted to the top. I love the sound, but I'd like a somewhat more substantial instrument, something I can put heavy enough strings on to get a real bottom end and bit more volume overall.

I'm a little scared of moving up to a longer string length from the Oahu's 24" and my Ultratone's 22.5", but I think I should be able to manage.

Of course, there's nowhere to try one out here, so It'd have to be a blind purchase. That said, it wouldn't be the first time I've bought a steel without trying it out first and and my luck's been ok so far.

ciao,
LP

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 Jul 2011 7:26 am

I have that guitar and it is nice, good bang for the buck!

I'm in the process of putting a couple of pickups on it right now.

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 7 Aug 2011 11:16 am

I heard through the Beard shop that there's been a temporary halt to production of the PBK-- some design tweaking is going on.

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 7 Aug 2011 11:52 am

I wonder what kind of tweaking. Maybe I should put this idea on hold until the new version appears.

LP

Mike Tueller · Post by **Mike Tueller** » 16 Aug 2011 12:20 pm

I always wanted to set up an acoustic for lap steel for a sound like Kelly Joe Phelps. Is it anywhere near that sound? (Of course I lack the talent of KJP...)

Mike

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 16 Aug 2011 12:56 pm

Adams builds a very nice square neck, acoustic guitar. You can order one with a pickup also.
Basically he takes a guitar and instead of puting a resonator cone in it, he just cuts in a round hole.
You can have choice of wood, trim and etc.
www.adamsresonator.com

Robert Murphy · Post by **Robert Murphy** » 16 Aug 2011 4:43 pm

Or this solid birch Hauver Guitar I havd made in WVA.

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 17 Aug 2011 4:38 am

I thought about buying one of those Beard PBK's but decided against it since there was no way to check one out beforehand. Instead I bought a used Seagull S12 with a built-in under bridge (not under saddle) pick up off ebay and converted it to a lap steel.

I chose the Seagull because it's a guitar that I'm familiar with and are known to have a wider than normal neck which allows for the wider string spacing of a typical lap steel. I chose a 12 string to convert because they're built to withstand the additional tension of 6 additional strings which means it can handle the additional tension of a steel with raised strings. The conversion was pretty easy and here's all that I did:
1. removed the frets
2. flattened the fretboard (for flat capo)
3. replaced the original nut and saddle with new raised bone nut and sadle.
4. shortened the head and removed 6 of the tuners

The guitar turned out real nice and you wouldn't know by looking at it that it's a converted 12 string and it sounds great. I have it tuned to open D but I tested it with open E and it was fine.

If you want to see it let me know and I'll post some pic's

Harrison Withers · Post by **Harrison Withers** » 17 Aug 2011 4:43 am

I have three of those oahu's at the moment (want one?) the third I am in the process of resurrecting, repaired a crack, had to fabricate a brace and had to reglue all the braces on the back. Way more trouble than it was worth, but i love these little guys and will always have a non-reso squareneck in my aresenal

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 17 Aug 2011 8:41 am

I thought about buying one of those Beard PBK's but decided against it since there was no way to check one out beforehand. Instead I bought a used Seagull S12 with a built-in under bridge (not under saddle) pick up off ebay and converted it to a lap steel.

I chose the Seagull because it's a guitar that I'm familiar with and are known to have a wider than normal neck which allows for the wider string spacing of a typical lap steel. I chose a 12 string to convert because they're built to withstand the additional tension of 6 additional strings which means it can handle the additional tension of a steel with raised strings. The conversion was pretty easy and here's all that I did:
1. removed the frets
2. flattened the fretboard (for flat capo)
3. replaced the original nut and saddle with new raised bone nut and saddle.
4. shortened the head and removed 6 of the tuners

The guitar turned out real nice and you wouldn't know by looking at it that it's a converted 12 string and it sounds great. I have it tuned to open D but I tested it with open E and it was fine.

If you want to see it let me know and I'll post some pic's

First off, I'd love to see some pictures. That seems like a lot of work to turn a $500 guitar into a similar instrument to the PBKG when you could have bought the PBKG and saved yourself the efforts, but I'm sure you had fun doing it.
If I needed that sound I'd definitely go with the Gold Tone.

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 17 Aug 2011 11:12 am

Yeah, I wish I would have had a chance to play the Beard but since I didn't I went with a guitar that I was already familiar with. I like the Seagull tone plus I wanted electric and the S12 has a pickup that sounds good to me. I bought this guitar used in mint condition for $300 with HSC and only sunk a few bucks into it. The conversion was easy and I do enjoy working on guitars so it was a fun little project. I'll post some pic's first chance I get.

Ron Yarboro · Post by **Ron Yarboro** » 18 Aug 2011 4:12 pm

Mark Mansueto wrote:I thought about buying one of those Beard PBK's but decided against it since there was no way to check one out beforehand. Instead I bought a used Seagull S12 with a built-in under bridge (not under saddle) pick up off ebay and converted it to a lap steel.

I chose the Seagull because it's a guitar that I'm familiar with and are known to have a wider than normal neck which allows for the wider string spacing of a typical lap steel. I chose a 12 string to convert because they're built to withstand the additional tension of 6 additional strings which means it can handle the additional tension of a steel with raised strings. The conversion was pretty easy and here's all that I did:
1. removed the frets
2. flattened the fretboard (for flat capo)
3. replaced the original nut and saddle with new raised bone nut and sadle.
4. shortened the head and removed 6 of the tuners

The guitar turned out real nice and you wouldn't know by looking at it that it's a converted 12 string and it sounds great. I have it tuned to open D but I tested it with open E and it was fine.

If you want to see it let me know and I'll post some pic's

Mark,
I'm also considering the GoldTone Beard, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger without trying It out first. I would love to see your Seagul 12 converted to a lap slide If you can find the time to post a picture.

Thanks
Ron

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 18 Aug 2011 5:08 pm

The idea of a 12 string conversion had occurred to me as well both for the extra width of the neck as well as the increased possibility of finding a twelve fret model over most 6 stringers.

LP

p.s. I'd love to see some pics too.

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 19 Aug 2011 5:24 am

Sorry for the delay but I've been real busy this week but I will take some pic's this weekend.

FYI, my avitar is me holding an old Epiphone 12 sting that I converted to a lap steel. I gave that guitar away a couple years ago and I've missed it ever since and that's why I did another one.

Ron Yarboro · Post by **Ron Yarboro** » 19 Aug 2011 5:54 am

Hi Mark,
Which guitar do you prefer, the Epiphone 12 or the Seagul 12?

Ron

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 20 Aug 2011 6:49 pm

Ron,
The short answer is that I like the Seagull better because it's a better built guitar. Tonewise I like 'em both and are both different.

The Epi was a quick conversion. I used an aluminum angle for the nut and a maple saddle with fretwire on top. That's it. The Epi tone is very lively and jangly but lacks a bit of botton end. It's an old guitar with no electronics which I think adds to the sweet tone this guitar has.

The Seagull is made in Canada and is noticeably heavier. The tone is more full bodied and has better low end. It's not as sweet but the overall tone is better and not as loud as the Epi. I actually like Seagull tone in general and they are affordable.

Here is a pic of the Epi...

And here are some of the Seagull (sorry they aren't more clear)...

Ron Yarboro · Post by **Ron Yarboro** » 20 Aug 2011 7:31 pm

Hi Mark,
The pictures are fine. Wow, you really did a good job. The conversions are very well done. It had to take some guts to cut into the peghead. It looks as If the other 6 tuner holes were never there. I just noticed that the Seagul looks like It has a slope shoulder body, cool. Thanks for posting the pics.

Ron

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 21 Aug 2011 1:27 am

I was reading that with an acoustic bridge saddle you don't want the visible part to be much bigger than the part embedded in the bridge plate. Many years ago I made up 2 extra tall saddles out of bone for a pair of inexpensive Washburn acoustic guitars. I hadn't played them for years but when I brought them out recently I found that the bone bridge saddle on one of them had self-destructed.

I have a hunch that on the really nice acoustic guitars designed as lap steels that they use a thicker bridge plate. (I bet you could laminate another piece of wood onto the existing bridge plate of some acoustic guitars to accommodate a much taller bridge saddle.)

Steve Ahola

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 21 Aug 2011 8:00 am

Steve,
that's interesting. I guess I'm going to find out because I doubt that I'll make a change now that it's done. Also, keep in mind that with a 12 string you have the choice of 2 sets of holes for the bridge pins. The front 6 are in the same location as a 6 string guitar and when you use a high nut the angle of the strings gets really steep. On mine I chose the rear set of holes which seem to work much better.

Ron,
The guitar is cedar and the body shape is not typical so it looks different than your average acoustic. I would have been a little nervous modding a Martin or Gibson but it wasn't a big deal. I used wood filler on the headstock & fret slots and sawdust from the fretboard to fill in the bridge holes.

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 22 Aug 2011 7:22 am

Steve Ahola wrote:I was reading that with an acoustic bridge saddle you don't want the visible part to be much bigger than the part embedded in the bridge plate. Many years ago I made up 2 extra tall saddles out of bone for a pair of inexpensive Washburn acoustic guitars. I hadn't played them for years but when I brought them out recently I found that the bone bridge saddle on one of them had self-destructed.

I have a hunch that on the really nice acoustic guitars designed as lap steels that they use a thicker bridge plate. (I bet you could laminate another piece of wood onto the existing bridge plate of some acoustic guitars to accommodate a much taller bridge saddle.)

Steve Ahola

The "50-50" rule - along the lines of 7/32" above and below. Otherwise either the saddle could snap, or more likely the part of the bridge in front of the saddle could snap off.

Mark, you could probably use a shorter saddle without any issues. When I've used a nut raiser I've always just used the existing saddle. But what you've done works, why change? As long as you're aware of the issues... By using the rear holes you are lessening the break angle, which lessens the forward pressure on the saddle. Maybe that's enough to stop the saddle issue, although snapping the front of the bridge off would still be something to be concerned about.

Converting a 12-string is a great idea, though, for 6-string or 8-string. Cutting grooves in the saddle could help string alignment at the bridge. You could always buy a new headcap so the plugged holes aren't visible from the top.

You've inspired me - I may just try this out.

Ron Yarboro · Post by **Ron Yarboro** » 22 Aug 2011 9:55 am

Thanks again Mark for sharing.

Ron

Mark Mansueto · Post by **Mark Mansueto** » 23 Aug 2011 3:38 am

John, thanks for the info. I'm glad that I responded to Laurence's post because this thread has helped me flush out some thoughts that I had about this guitar.

I set the height of the nut and saddle so that the string height on the Seagull is 3/8" for the length of the neck. One reason for that is because that is what works for my capo. Flattening the fretboard also helped lower the saddle and works better for the capo. I did try the original bridge but it was too low for me plus I didn't like the radius. I am curious now as to what the % is of how much of the bridge is sticking out so I'll measure and find out. Based on your and Steve's comments I may shorten it a bit.

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 23 Aug 2011 6:59 pm

Hi Mark,

I'm glad that you responded to my post as well. It was cool seeing the conversion job you did. It's something that I'd thought about in the past, but haven't done as I don't really have the necessary skill set to do it myself. I used to troll eBay looking for the Epiphone Masterbilt 12 fret dreadnought thinking this might be the ideal style of guitar for this.

I also like the direction that your response took the post, because it underlines that fact that the options for moderately priced acoustic lap guitars for the non-reso set are a bit limited. As such, standard flat-top conversion is a significant option.

What are the other options? My impression is that most everyone seems to agree that the inexpensive Weissenborn style guitars are not so great. The PBKG seems like a great addition to this very limited field, but it'd be really nice to try one out first.

ciao,
LP