Making a Fry Pan- Any Advice?

Brian McNamee · Post by **Brian McNamee** » 26 Jul 2011 11:32 am

My wife recently signed me up for a foundry class at a local fine arts metal shop. Being obsessed with all things guitars, I instantly thought of making a lap steel guitar in my class. I have seen Rick Aiello's website with his aluminum and bronze fry pans (actually that was my main inspiration for this project) and building one of these guitars looks pretty straight forward. I'm wondering if anybody here has done this before and can you offer any advise or tips that would help me along in this project.

One of my big questions is do I make the mold a rough blank and machine the metal after it's cast, or spend more time on the mold and have less machining to do later. Depending on what I used for the mold material, it might be easier to work with than the cast metal.
I spoke briefly with one of the instructors and he suggested that aluminum might be tricky to machine by hand since it clogs up files quickly.

I'm just beginning to get my head around this project so any advice would be welcomed.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 26 Jul 2011 12:06 pm

Sounds like a fun project Brian ... looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

I spoke briefly with one of the instructors and he suggested that aluminum might be tricky to machine by hand since it clogs up files quickly.

Working aluminum by hand can be a real bear. I'd say that you would be a lot happier doing more work on the pattern and mold to start with.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 26 Jul 2011 12:52 pm

Why do you have to work the aluminum by hand?

Brian McNamee · Post by **Brian McNamee** » 26 Jul 2011 1:34 pm

The idea of working the aluminum by hand comes from the tools I have access to and/or could afford to buy for the project.
What would be more suitable?
I imagine a milling machine would be the best case scenario.

L. Bogue Sandberg · Post by **L. Bogue Sandberg** » 27 Jul 2011 4:59 am

Tom's advice is spot on.

Google "filing aluminum" and the first entry should be the Nicholson Guide to Filing" from Cooper Hand Tools. They list special files for cutting aluminum and the guide discusses proper technique, which helps avoid fouling or dulling the teeth.

Metal working with hand tools takes huge patience, but it's amazing what you can do.

Bogue

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 27 Jul 2011 5:53 am

Brian, you might be interested in The Steel Guitar Builder Forum:

http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/index.php

It's a pretty low traffic board with some experienced people. Have fun with your project. HTH.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 27 Jul 2011 9:31 am

I'm not arguing that hand filing is a skill that is not worth learning. I'm just saying that there are probably machine shops all around you. Or, if you'd rather do it yourself, I'm sure you could find a Community College shop to learn. The foundry instructors don't know anyone with a mill or a grinder?

Most "fabrication collectives" need some machining done eventually. Ask around; someone knows someone.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 27 Jul 2011 10:03 am

I spoke briefly with one of the instructors and he suggested that aluminum might be tricky to machine by hand since it clogs up files quickly.

Use Vixen files and squirt them with WD-40. They won't load up.

Geoff Cline · Post by **Geoff Cline** » 27 Jul 2011 10:14 am

I agree with Tom P. Time and energy on the mold/pattern...the less time you chase and finish or clean up parting lines and the like post-casting the better. The end result will be much better too.

Good luck withe project.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 27 Jul 2011 1:23 pm

I would think that a pattern made of wood, for the mold, could save a lot of extra metal, if the pattern was fairly accurate. There is a shrinkage factor in aluminum of course. Don't remember the number/ratio.
Some Rick frypans are less than 22 1/2", for example. Mine measures 22 3/8"
So adding some length there may be something to think about on a pattern...
Hope you have fun with the project

BILL

Brian McNamee · Post by **Brian McNamee** » 27 Jul 2011 7:45 pm

Thanks for the input everybody.

I mentioned that after seeing Rick Aiello's site this project seemed "pretty straight forward" but as this thread is pointing out there are some small details I didn't even know existed.

I've got some research to do on what type of aluminum to use. I don't necessarily want to make a clone but any idea what they used in the fry pan?

Making the mold as detailed as possible does make sense. I'm thinking the only real details after the body shape, bridge and nut would be to include frets, tuner slots in the headstock and a pickup cavity. If I build that into the mold, that will leave me less work to do later.

Michael, thanks for that link. I didn't know that forum existed but I have already founds loads of great info in my short time reading there.

Darrell, I'm sure you're right, the guys at the foundry probably have the tools I need or know someone close by that does. I'm going to stop by and talk to them again. there are a couple musicians working there who are into this project so I"m sure they will be helpful.

Once I get started, I'll post some pictures.

Philip Bender · Post by **Philip Bender** » 28 Jul 2011 6:59 pm

Hey Brian,
First, do you know how to weld aluminum?
If you do weld alum., send me a private message, and I will send you some sketches on how to fab a guitar out of alum tubing, works for me.
Phil

Mark Bracewell · Post by **Mark Bracewell** » 28 Jul 2011 7:20 pm

I'd just jump in and try, but then, I am known to be a little mad

Working alum by hand is ... work, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Your wife signed you up man, you have carte blanche!

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 29 Jul 2011 9:03 pm

When I re-furbished my early frypan, I took the bare casting to an aluminum foundry nearby, and they couldn't figure out how it was cast with a hollow neck

Couldn't have been too difficult, if it was done in the early 30s

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 30 Jul 2011 11:39 am

moved

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 30 Jul 2011 2:02 pm

"since it clogs up files quickly. "

Brian, you don't need special files. All you need is a block of chalk! Run your file frequently across the chalk, to fill the grooves. Also get a file carding tool. I used to work in a sheet metal shop, and we did a lot of aluminum medical stuff. The guys hated the hand filing, until I told them the "trick." Old gunsmith stuff.

Edited to add; http://www.tools-plus.com/nicholson-21458.html

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 31 Jul 2011 12:22 pm

Brian McNamee wrote:I have seen Rick Aiello's website with his aluminum and bronze fry pans (actually that was my main inspiration for this project) and building one of these guitars looks pretty straight forward.

One of my big questions is do I make the mold a rough blank and machine the metal after it's cast, or spend more time on the mold and have less machining to do later.

I tried to incorporate the cavities in my first try ... but quickly realized the 400 lb Cope & Drag needed was beyond my ability to flip ..

So I have always used an open cast ... with an integrated nut and bridge ... and did everything I needed/wanted afterward ...

Here is a Photo-Diary of the last build I did ... Hope it helps ...

http://www.hsga.org/talkstory/cgi-bin/y ... 1215731023

Brian McNamee · Post by **Brian McNamee** » 2 Aug 2011 8:51 pm

Hi Rick,
Thanks for checking in. Like I said, the pictures on your horseshoemagnet.com site really made this look like an interesting, and doable project. I'll check out your link to the HSGA also.

I noticed the pans you cast had built in nuts and bridges. I was thinking it made more sense to build them into the mold, a little oversized, then machine them down. This lead to my question about filing aluminum.

To everyone else, thanks for all the links and tips on working with aluminum. Seems easier than I was thinking. I'll get some practice with it soon.

I remembered a buddy of mine has a milling machine with a burned out motor. Maybe I can pick him up a replacement motor in turn for some time on his machine.
Figuring out the tools I have access to will also inform the design I end up using.
Next thing I'll do is talk to the metal shop guys and some of their buddies and see what my options are.

Best,

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 4 Aug 2011 4:22 pm

Rick, what kind of tools did you use to make the cast dustpans?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 4 Aug 2011 5:22 pm

Petrobond oiled sand, A356 aluminum alloy ingots, 2500 F furnaces, Grizzly Router, Grizzly Milling Machine, Grizzly Drill Press, Grizzly Chop Saw, Lubricant wax, WD40, Vixen Al files, belt sander, disk sander, crap loads of sandpaper, Grizzly Buffer, multiple buffing wheels, multiple compounds/rouges, Tapping machine, hand drill, hack saw ... just off the top of my head

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 4 Aug 2011 5:30 pm

Hey Rick, good to see you weighing in on the topic.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 4 Aug 2011 7:34 pm

That's a tool list by the man who knows !

Good to see ya on here Rick

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 5 Aug 2011 7:20 pm

Ditto on seeing my old friend Rick Aiello chime in here. He may have some input on pickups as well. He sure used to design & build really nice ones, but the last I heard he was no longer building them.

Best of luck. Take your time & when you get stuck, don't hesitate to ask questions. There is tons of experience right here on this forum.

Brian McNamee · Post by **Brian McNamee** » 6 Aug 2011 9:00 am

I have been thinking about pickups and was just reading this post for a similar project: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=207856
He is starting out with an aluminum block and machining it down.
As one of the posters suggested there, I may end up with p-90's or a charlie christian style pickups. I have a couple of old gibson steels and love the sound of those p-90's

Someone posed the question earlier in this thread about making the neck hollow. I'll have to talk to the foundry guys about this one also. I don't know if that would save me a lot of weight in the end, or if the it actually help with the resonance and sustain somehow.

Philip Bender · Post by **Philip Bender** » 7 Aug 2011 6:42 am

Hey Brian,
I need your home address to send this stuff snail mail, OK send on private messages.
Phil

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