Musicman HD One Thirty - Are these good for steel guitar?

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 20 Jul 2011 8:23 pm

I'd think that one of these would be pretty much "on the money" for a steel guitar amp, much like a Fender Twin type thing really, but thought I'd check here to see what the pedal steel community's thoughts were.

I've been on the hunt for a Fender Twin or Dual Showman but this just popped up so I thought I'd check it out.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 20 Jul 2011 10:54 pm

Schematic: http://www.music-in.de/pics/hd130b.gif

Looks like it's got a solid state front end into a monster power supply. So probably yes, depending on if they keep the front end clean or not. It says "guitar preamp" which makes me skeptical that it would be clean, but... It's a fender in sheep's clothing. I'd be interested to know how it works for you.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 21 Jul 2011 4:45 am

The only thing remotely close to a Fender is the power tubes. A solid state front end and the power tubes are driven by transiostors as well. A good amp, but not even similar to a Twin reverb, other than tubes, speakers and cabinet color.

It was often quoted on the net that Leo had little to do with Musicman amps, his passion was in the guitars they built. They are however wonderful amps and more similar to the Peavey Mace, Duece and Classic amps of that same era. All with transistor front ends and tube power amps (not the VT series by Peavey, those used opamps in the front end).

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 21 Jul 2011 5:23 am

Ben,I'm using a MM 212-HD 150-the next generation but very similar-for six-string and steel.It's stock except for the speakers,which are Eminence Legend 1218s.It's an excellent 6-string amp,and acceptable for steel onstage.Because it has 2 channels,I can use it for gigs where the stage is too small for separate amps,mics,etc.

Although I've never A/B'd the HD-150 on steel with a Twin Reverb,I've been satisfied enough with the Music Man not to feel a need to do the experiment or contemplate spending the money for a similar(but less powerful) amp.I do think Music Man amps are much like what Fender amps would have evolved into had Leo not sold the company.I also have a 210-65 Music Man and it's flat-out the best guitar amp I've owned in fifty-plus years of gigging.

All that having been said,my experience is that a really good dedicated steel guitar amp will sound better than a really good general purpose amp like the Music Man,as well as the TR and its variants,but if there are constraints on how many amps you can take to work,an HD-130 in good repair with good speakers will do the job.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 21 Jul 2011 5:51 am

I got to say, I love the sound of the Musiman amps as well. I see a lot of them thru the shop and all sound very good! I hope someday to find a 110RD amp. It is a little tone monster and easy to carry around.

Gary Meixner · Post by **Gary Meixner** » 21 Jul 2011 7:49 am

Hey Ben,

Is the amp you are looking at a head unit or a combo? I have had an MM HD 130 combo with 2 10" speakers for many years. It is a great amp. I love the way it sounds. They are known to be bullet proof and almost trouble free. Mine has been through a lot of abuse. They are very heavy and no one likes to lug them around.

From what I can tell, PSG players are mixed about their love for these amps. Some are very happy with them but many have called them too harsh for their tastes. I play non pedal steel and regular six string guitar through mine and have no complaints even with the smaller speakers.

I do think speakers will make a big diffrence. I use to play mine with an old 12" Altec speakers in a closed, ported Thiele box as an extension speaker in addition to the two 10" and the sound was incredible. But all in all it was too much to carry around.

These are not good amps if you like the sound of an amps natural distortion unless you like to play at ear splitting volumes. In my opinion they are often under valued and consequently can be had quite cheap. If you are looking for an affordable, reliable, good sounding,clean playing amp I would give them a try. You might want to consider trying diffrent speakers. I am considering putting a pair of neo's in mine to save some weight. I should add that currently I am playing through much smaller all tube amps and only gig with the MM when I need a lot more power. Good luck.

Gary Meixner

Benjamin Wolfram · Post by **Benjamin Wolfram** » 21 Jul 2011 12:07 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone

I did a bit of my own searching about these amps and like you've said there is a bit of a mixed opinion on them from the PSG community, with a lot of people using words like "harsh" and having to tweak around with them to get a good PSG tone. This amp will be ONLY for PSG (but I'm a six string man too so if it's a great clean sound I'm sure I'll have use for it too in other applications) so I want to make sure it's good for PSG.

I think I'm still going to wait for a Twin or a Dual Showman...or a Vibrosonic or something. Would like a nice combo or head it doesn't bother me too much.

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 21 Jul 2011 6:03 pm

Ken, Did you ever try a 100-RD ? I have one with a EVM-12L and it will kick my Twin Reverb's butt. Not on power, even though it is powerful, but tone. The 65 Reverb you tuned for me won't hold it a light.

Robert Mayo · Post by **Robert Mayo** » 22 Jul 2011 6:29 am

All the MM amps I have had pass through my shop are super clean with plenty of power, So I would would assume they would be great for steel.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Jul 2011 1:21 am

Indeed they are good amps, I acquired a very clean one in a trade and used it for about 6 months but realize this, they do not sound like Fender Twins. For my taste , with the stock MM 12's it was way to middy so I popped in a pair of Fender Emmis' which really brightened it up. I mostly used it in the 65 watt mode which gave it a bit of edge , nice amp, some guy offered me a ton of money for it so ..bye bye...

A month or two back I had one in my shop where the final stage power transistors opened up, although the parts are not expensive and fairly easy to find it's not like working on a classic Fender tube amp. I think the owner sold it a few days after it was up and running, and by the way it was loud/clean as sin...

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 24 Jul 2011 4:27 am

Benjamin, I have the exact same amp as Dave Hopping and it's a killer piece of equipment. Mine has a pair of ElectroVoice 12" speakers with magnets almost as big around as the speaker themselves! I use mine a lot on steel and lead guitar gigs as I just run my steel into the first channel through a Boss ME-50 Multi Effects board and then run my Telecaster through the second (main) channel with it's effects board. The main channel on mine has a built in phase shifter with which you can get a very usable organ effect or the old Waylon Jennings phaser sound. This is without a doubt the heaviest amplifier I've ever owned or probably will ever own but it sounds so damn good that it's worth it. Here's a shot of mine......JH in Va.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Jul 2011 5:33 am

Jerry Hayes wrote:This is without a doubt the heaviest amplifier I've ever owned

well try picking up a Mesa Boogie Mark series !

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 24 Jul 2011 3:55 pm

Tony(and Jerry)-
I couldn't resist....I took the bathroom scale out to the garage and put my EV/SC/EQ/Reverb Mark III on it.69 pounds.

The HD-150 is 67 pounds.I'd think Jerry's is probably heavier with the EVs.Jerry,has your amp had a weigh-in?

The "winnah and still champion" in my stable is the Session 500 at 81 pounds.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 24 Jul 2011 4:07 pm

I think a twin with JBL's beats the Session 500 by a fair margin!

KP

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 24 Jul 2011 7:56 pm

Ken Pippus wrote:I think a twin with JBL's beats the Session 500 by a fair margin!

KP

Could be,Ken.Has anybody put one on the scale?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 24 Jul 2011 11:21 pm

My old '71/72 Twin Reverb with JBL K-120's weighed in over 85 pounds. It was frightening, but also frighteningly good sounding. I sold it - it was just too much for what I was doing at the time (late 80s, early 90s).

In principle, I like the Music Man HD One-Thirty amps, especially a head-only version, but heads harder to come by. I've had a few of these over the years, 2x10" and 2x12" versions, they were good but all gone now. My take - good amp, but there are a few issues:

1. Keeping the front-end clean. To my tastes, they can get pretty harsh if I push the front end, and it's not hard to do that. I did sub some of the front-end op-amps and judiciously trying different ones out helped (to my tastes). It would be interesting to see how they would handle some of the newer op-amp chips.

2. All mine had a Hi/Lo power switch, which switched between roughly 700 (Hi) and 500 (Lo) volts on the plates. Naturally, I like the 700 volt setting better, especially for steel, but this can be very rough on the tubes, which naturally leads to ...

3. Keeping them in power tubes. All the ones I had used 6CA7 power tubes, which is a US version of the EL34, same basic power tube as in old Marshalls, but with heavier construction, a cleaner sound, and higher plate-voltage handling ability. NOS Philips/Sylvania 6CA7's seemed to handle the higher plate voltage OK, but good luck finding them at a reasonable price-point. The modern imported versions have always scared me in these amps.

I believe some of the later Music Man amps used 6L6 power tubes, and I suppose it would be possible to rewire the 6CA7 amp for easier-to-source NOS power tubes, or even scale back the plate voltage a bit. Still, in general, this plate-voltage/tube issue is one I always think about with these amps.

Myself, I guess I'll stick with my '69 Dual Showman Reverb head when I want that kind of power out of a tube amp. They show up here on the For-Sale forum here from time to time - I know Bob Carlucci had a pair of Showman heads for sale here not long ago - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=207715 - if I didn't already have mine, I probably would have bought that DSR head.

The blackface non-reverb Showman head is a nice amp also - I've had a few of these over the years, great with an external reverb unit. My tastes, of course.

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 25 Jul 2011 8:00 am

The best Music Man model ever made for steel guitar
was the 115HD. This had the 150 Watt chassis and a single 15" EVM speaker. I sold mine a few years back and I have been looking for one every since. It was the worst mistake I ever made. It was very heavy but the sound was fantastic..

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 25 Jul 2011 9:50 am

Here's a link:

http://www.musicmanamps.com/

I found out that EVs like the ones in Jerry's amp were a factory upgrade for the HD-150;a 212 so equipped weighed 92 pounds,and a HD-150 115 was 76 pounds.

On a slightly unrelated topic,I have a pair of JBL D-120s (F's,I think),and all this cool Music Man talk makes me think about swapping them into my HD-150.Any thoughts?

I'm not too worried about the weight.Having a couple of big amps just means you don't have to go to the gym when you want a workout.

Benton Allen · Post by **Benton Allen** » 26 Jul 2011 5:02 pm

Dave, back in the seventies, my brother used a 212-HD with a pair of JBL D-120 speakers while touring. His D-10 Emmons sounded pretty good thru it, and it held up well.
Cheers!
Benton

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 26 Jul 2011 6:49 pm

Now I'm REALLY going to think about a swap.If I do it,I'll file a report.Thanks,Benton!

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Musicman HD One Thirty - Are these good for steel guitar?

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