Not happy with 4ht pedal change on E9th

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 22 Jul 2011 10:38 am

I recently bought a guitar that had the 4th pedal hooked to the E9th neck. The 4th pedal raised string 5 from B to C# and the 6th string from G# to A. This pedal produced some really pretty big major 7th cords. Other than that I can find no use for it as my A and B pedals do the same thing, except the A pedal does raise sting 10 from B to C#, and my B pedal does raise string 3 from G# to A. I am wanting to put something different on this 4th pedal and would like some suggestions?

Bob Mc Donald · Post by **Bob Mc Donald** » 22 Jul 2011 12:04 pm

lower 5,6,10 a whole tone ( Franklin pedal )

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 22 Jul 2011 1:13 pm

Bob, I have talked to a bunch of people who have installed the Franklin Pedal and don't really use it or like it. What does it do that is do great? I never did personally understand the 6th string being lowered to F# when the 7th string is a F#---but---when it comes to tunings I'm not to smart.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 22 Jul 2011 1:37 pm

My 4th E9 floor pedal raises the first string a whole tone and the second string a half tone. Most people that have this change have it on a knee lever, but I tried it that way and didn't like the long throw. I feel it works much better on the floor. I got the idea from Tommy White's copedent.

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 22 Jul 2011 2:05 pm

my 4th flr pdl i have it raising 1 and 2 and have my Rkl lowering my 5 a whole tone and have a split down to a half when needed,6th same whole tone down and split to a half on my lkv.its Tommy Whites set up.i love it,there are so many licks and chords you can make and some neat phrasing of 7th licks ,etc.if you want i may need to send you my vol pedal for a repair and i can send you a video of some stuff i have found. Rudy

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 22 Jul 2011 6:42 pm

Both you guys are quoting Tommy White's E9th set up. What is all of Tommy's E9th setup on pedals and knees? One other thing I have been thinking about putting on this pedal is lowering 3 to G and raising 6 to A. I have that on one of my guitars and you can play some serious Ralph Mooney stuff with it. With that pedal I use it with the pedal that raises 5 and 10 a whole tone. Yes-I have to use 2 feet, awkward but rewarding. Rudy, I really miss my old singing buddy Gary Atkinson of Conway, Arkansas. I think about Gary a lot, we had some great times playing music together.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 22 Jul 2011 8:01 pm

Go to the top of this page and click on "Links." Then click on "copedents." You'll find Tommy White's copedent, and many more.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 22 Jul 2011 11:27 pm

Tommy White's copedent is interesting indeed.
Rudy and Paul,
Is having P3 and P4 together important?
Are they used together with the left foot?
Is the right foot sometimes used for P4?

The reason I ask is that he has the Day (CBA) setup. If I were to incorporate this setup using the Emmons ABC and LKL raise, LKR lower (opposite of Tommy's) would it make sense to put that P4 change at P0?
Thanks

Clete

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 23 Jul 2011 6:58 am

Clete: I play the Day floor set-up, so having that change on P4 makes sense to me. I do on rare occasions use P3 & P4 together. I do not use two feet.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 23 Jul 2011 7:48 am

My new steel has 4th pedal as the Franklin. It is pretty cool, but if your playing cover material and playing close to the original recordings, it might not be used as much. Obviously the music that Paul Frankin has played on will have it. Greg Cutshaw recently had a post here on the Forum with some excellent samples of what can be done with the Franklin pedal.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jul 2011 10:05 am

"I never did personally understand the 6th string being lowered to F# when the 7th string is a F#"
Keith,
Sometimes it's not just the note, but the way you get TO the note! So much of the appealing sound of steel is in it's ability for the beautiful movement of notes/chords. If it was just about notes, we could add a lot of strings, and forget about pedals and levers. I have that change on the inside LKL, on my '74 Shobud S-10, and love it!
Nickle E9th-----P 1----P 2----P 3----LKL1----LKL2----LKV----LKR----RKL----RKR
.013p-F#-------------------------------------------------------G/G#
.015p-D#--------------------------------------------------------E-------D
.012p-G#---------------A
.014p-E-----------------------F#-------F----------------------------------------Eb
.018p-B-------C#-------------C#-----------------------Bb/A
.022p-G#---------------A----------------------F#
.026w-F#-------------------------------------------------------G/G#
.030w-E---------------------------------F---------------------------------------Eb
.034w-D----------------------------------------------------------------C#
.038w-B------C#----------------------------------------Bb/A

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 23 Jul 2011 11:26 am

Keith, I used to have the pedal you're talking about which just raised the 5th and 6th strings. Some of us call it the "Isaacs" pedal after Bud Isaacs. With it you can play "Bud's Bounce" very easily using just that pedal and save the wear and tear on your 3rd string.

I don't have it anymore but one nice thing I used to use it for was a very pretty ending (or lick). Say you're in the key of A at the 5th fret, use that pedal to go to the IVmaj7 and then lower the E's a half and the 5th string B a half if you've got that knee lever. Try it you'll like it.

I still have the pedal but I now raise the 6th string a whole tone with it to A#. When you have your E's lowered and you're in B6th it'll give you the same thing as the C6th pedal that raises C6th strings 3 and 4 a whole tone. Some call it the "Thompson Pedal" in that Bob White used it a lot with Hank Thompson. Also you can play things on E9th with it like "Raisin' The Dickens" and others.
Another use for it is to simulate lowering the 4th string a whole tone. Say you're in the key of C at the 8th fret and you want a very nice C7th just slide your bar back two frets while applying this pedal at the same time. You can get the sound of dropping the high root to the dom7......JH in Va.

Olie Eshleman · Post by **Olie Eshleman** » 23 Jul 2011 4:12 pm

I have the Emmons pedal arrangement, as well as the same changes Tommy White has on P4 on my P0 (along with string 7 F#>G#). This works well for me. Though sometimes I wish my foot were wider so I could get all 3 of the first pedals at once for a cool IV Maj7 chord

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jul 2011 4:17 pm

Here ya go Olie!

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 23 Jul 2011 4:48 pm

Thanks Olle for confirming. Paul S. said he doesnt use them together much and doesnt use two feet, so it seemed that this coped would work in reverse as well.
Ive been comparing different P0 copeds beside the Franklin lowers so I can make an educated choice on what I find most useful to me. Right now Im trying out lowering Gs a half, and I think I'll give this a try next.

Clete

bill dearmore · Post by **bill dearmore** » 24 Jul 2011 9:58 am

Hi Keith, if I understand you right the change that you have on it now is a pretty neat change...with the mentioned pedal engaged without the bar would give you an "A" chord on strings 4,5,and 6...OK, add the 10th string to that(b note) and the result is a beautiful 4 over 5 chord or a B7-9-11th. This I believe is the same change Buddy had managed to get by not pulling the 10th string with the A pedal. ....

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 24 Jul 2011 11:00 am

You might consider moving the 4th pedal to the left and making it a zero pedal. My zero pedal lowers the G# strings to G natural, and when I use it with the A pedal it produces a diminished chord.

Some people use the zero pedal to raise the 6th string from G# to Bb.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 28 Jul 2011 8:32 am

Keith Hilton wrote:I recently bought a guitar that had the 4th pedal hooked to the E9th neck. The 4th pedal raised string 5 from B to C# and the 6th string from G# to A. This pedal produced some really pretty big major 7th cords. Other than that I can find no use for it as my A and B pedals do the same thing, except the A pedal does raise sting 10 from B to C#, and my B pedal does raise string 3 from G# to A. I am wanting to put something different on this 4th pedal and would like some suggestions?

Keith- I have my 4th. pedal set up that way,but I use it with a 5th pedal that will raise my 7th.string F# to G# and the 6th. string up to B. giving me a full E6th. My steel is a 12 string tuning the 9th. string to C#,10 B, 11 G#,12 E. Joe

www.willowcreekband.com

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 28 Jul 2011 4:02 pm

I never did personally understand the 6th string being lowered to F# when the 7th string is a F#--<<

Keith, When you combine the G# to F# lower on string 6 with other pedals and knee levers it makes a lot of sense. For instance..with the E to Eb lower on strings 4 & 8 you get a nice B chord on strings 4,5, 6 and 8. 2. If you have the split on string 6, when you lower your G# to G with the lever and A pedal you get an E minor chord on strings 4,5,,6 and 8. With the F# knee lever, the Eb knee lever and the A pedal you get an Eb aug chord on string 4,5, 6 and 8. With the A and B pedals and the F# lower you get an A7th chord on strings 4, 5, 6, and 8. Keith, it is a great change when you combine it with other pedals and levers.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jul 2011 4:44 am

Keith Hilton wrote:Bob, I have talked to a bunch of people who have installed the Franklin Pedal and don't really use it or like it. What does it do that is do great?

uhmm... interesting, if you ask the question to some who don't know what it does or how to use it, that would be the appropriate answer.

Lowers 5,6 and 10 at the same time, some separate the 6th string off to it's own lever..

If you don't understand what it does you will never "hear" it on records or when other players are using it. Franklin, White, Johnson etc..are all over this change consistently.

I am no an expert, I use it, ALL the time..

here are some YouTubes with simple examples, basic phrasing which can be used in ANY song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujS7lbIz1A4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq_nz4CGXnU

I have programs that teach it's entry level use.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Not happy with 4ht pedal change on E9th

Not happy with 4ht pedal change on E9th

4 floor pedal

Re: Not happy with 4ht pedal change on E9th

F# in conjunction with other pedals and knee levers