Do we really need anything more than a P/P

Bo Legg · Posted 26 May 2011 12:11 pm

We should have never went past the P/P. There really hasn't been any improvement that we needed after that.
It's like in the real world where science has just gone too far. You tell me if we really needed anything else after the banana spit was invented.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Is this a question or a statement? Wink

Personally, I am very grateful for my Franklin and Zum. I also have a push-pull - it's great, but the others are different in a very nice way.

There are so many fine pedal steels being built now - this is a good thing. I suppose it is possible to go too far, but I don't think that has happened here.

Um - mocha espresso dark-chocolate sundae with shot of single-barrel bourbon on top?

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i agree with dave. after an era of sho-bud..following a p/p...i got a zum (82). i have since acquired some more p/p's and could gladly settle for that. however, the zum is just enough better of a tool that it would be my first choice.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

There was a moment about a hundred years ago, after the electric light and the telephone and the automobile and the airplane had all appeared, that respectable, credible folks truly believed that everything possible had already been invented. Long articles were written in the national press to that effect and Congress debated closing the patent office accordingly.

I for one am very glad that they were all so very wrong, as the closest thing to a P/P at that point was an old acoustic guitar with a raised nut played by someone with a nimble wrist.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Had two, hated both. Devil

phred
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Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

I thought that for years until I found a Zum.... Recently purchased a Zum hybrid and it blows away everything else I have ever played, period!

To each their own, but I am certainly not wishing for a PP anytime soon.

Robert

Ray Anderson · From: Jenkins, Kentucky USA

I may never learn to play as well as some of you because I started late in life, but there is one thing for sure I will know the pros and cons of most of the guitars out there by just listening and I must say that I do enjoy listening to the debates. I so wish that I knew where to look to find more info on theory and mechanics of pedal steel guitars, I have no idea what a p/p is or how it functions. You guys are a blast, keep it up. Ray

Bo Legg · Posted 27 May 2011 2:59 pm

Ray the P/P is in two words a Push Pull and in one word a Myth. The P/P only has "the" sound when Buddy is playing it.
The push pull, all pull and pull and release mechanisms in their entirety are just basic simple caveman leverage that I'm sure dates back even before the wheel.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I have a couple PP D11 guitars, one of which is my favorite sounding, a Sho-Bud Professional D10/11 with Bigsby-copy Pups, my favorite playing and a close second on sounding and a bunch of other guitars, Sho-Bud and otherwise that have been modified for specific kinds of music.

I had a session where it was 12 cuts of American songbook standards and I really needed the Bud, with all the peds and knees to get those changes, but the PP wraparound had the sound and I had to learn everything on a more limited set up. In the session, they loved the sound of the guitar and that's what counts.

Bo Legg · Posted 28 May 2011 10:29 am

My topic is meant to be a question and not necessarily my sentiments regarding the P/P.
Let me qualify the question to more along the lines of did we just build a bunch of PSGs looking for the best sound before we discovered the P/P already had it and now were stuck with all these other PSG and can’t go back. Would we have Dairy Queen if we would have realized sooner that a homemade ice cream banana split was the absolute best.
Or maybe my views are tainted by the fact that my father had the best steel guitar sound using an old black with white trim Rickenbacker lap steel through an old console radio with an 18” speaker converted into an amp.
Bottom line if I had built the P/P exactly as it is today and put the name STEW-LEG PSG on it way back then I’m sure it would be obsolete by now and you guys would be posting how the sound sucked

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

To me this seems kind of akin to the myth regarding the '59 sunburst Gibson Les Paul in the 6-string world. It is basically associated with a certain sound created by certain players. What sounds best is largely subjective. As far as the mechanics and playability are concerned, steel guitar builders along the years simply came up with something more practical. Both designs have their advantages and disadvantages. For instance, the push/pull mechanism may be very stable if set up right, but once you want to change your copedant, it can become very tricky if you don't know exactly what you're doing. (My first PSG was a p/p so I know at least a little bit about it).
The p/p guitars I had a chance to play on (after the first one), compared with a modern all-pull guitar, somewhat gave me the impression of driving a tractor as opposed to a modern car. Sure they sound great in the hands of a capable player, but playing one sure won't make me sound like Buddy Emmons. And don't forget that Mr.E, way after the invention of the p/p, has played on a lot of different designs and brands of guitars and always sounded like himself.
Sure, if I had a lot of money and could afford to get myself a steel guitar collection, I'd definitely include a push/pull! I just think that history has proven that the p/p is not the end of the pedal steel guitar's development.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

I wonder how much the "bad back" plays into scene.
Of course, the Black ones sound better so I have been told.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Tom Quinn · Posted 29 May 2011 7:10 am

An Emmons original is the only steel worth picking. The others are communistic and should be sold to China.
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Jason Hull · Posted 30 May 2011 4:14 am

Personally, I won't be satisfied until the PSG tunes itself, changes its own strings, throws pizza dough, and brews its own beer! Surprised

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Jason, I have one of those; it's called a good wife!!

phred
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

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Tom Quinn · Posted 30 May 2011 6:39 am

What's her copedent?
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bob drawbaugh · From: scottsboro, al. usa

Bo, I think the P/P had to evolve as country music evolved. Winking

If it had only evolved to a keyless I think Emmons would have had a keeper.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Sorry, too many parts on a P/P. Prefer modern all-pulls.

ADDED: The two push-pulls that have I played, the pedals/levers were either extremely squishy or hard as a rock and barely moved. I can't imagine having to work on these things, but if you have the knack, then that's the axe for you.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that tunable splits are a wonderful invention. You can't get splits at all on a push-pull. Raises always win.
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Brett Lanier · From: Hermitage, TN

I've sure liked the few push pulls I've gotten to try out. I'd like to have one someday but at this point Im sorta dependent on my 8x8 setup, & I'm sure it would cost me a pretty penny to have somebody set that up. My fessy still does a lot better than I can play.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Tom Q: "What's her copedent?"

It's tuned to the key "I DO till death do us part."

There are no pedals or knees to screw up the music. Rolling Eyes

phred
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

Think about it!!

Adam Goodale · From: Pflugerville, TX

Several of you complain about how they play, but i have to ask, have you ever played on that is set up correctly? By a P/P expert? like Rick Price, or Mike Cass? My pp plays almost as good as my LG2 did, and better than an msa classic i owned... It stays in tune 10 times better than any all pull ive touched. i have a 2010 d10 fessy on the way from south carolina that i will try in 2 or 3 days, and if my feelings change i will let yall know. Another thing, it feels like the string tension on my p/p is greater than it was on any all pulls, doesnt make sense since its the same scale length, but just something ive noticed...
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Emmons P/P's into the loudest amp I can get ahold of. No effects other than reverb. EVER!. Come catch a show and be sure and say hi!

Dave Burr · From: League City, TX

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