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Topic: What's the deal with "keyless" guitars??? |
Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Posted 20 May 2011 12:20 pm |
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Call me an inexperienced newbie, but I don't understand these. I just don't see the point in them.
There's a couple in the For Sale section now, a Harmos and a custom job. I've also seen some on Ebay.
I don't understand what the benefit is of a keyless design is. Seems like you'd need some type of wrench to change strings or to tune it, which would be kind of a headache if you spend a lot of time swapping between C6, A6, Leavitt, etc. 
Am I missing out on the greatest thing since sliced bread here?? Hopefully someone on here can enlighten me.
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Some songs I've written |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 20 May 2011 2:28 pm
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| They take up less space, weigh less, and the tuning is more stable. Worth keeping a wrench around for. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 20 May 2011 3:13 pm
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,,,extra wrench,,big deal,,,don't we all have our little hex wrench for tuning pedals and knees???,,,personally, I've incorporated my keyless allen wrench into my pedal and knee tuning wrench,,,and speaking of seeing no need for something,,,I see no need for the extra 6" of guitar sticking out there.
Keyless to the core!!!!!! |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 20 May 2011 3:50 pm
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Steve, chances are there's others out there in the world, but the only non-pedal or lap steel I can even think of that is keyless is the Harmos.
With pedal steels it's a different story as to the advantages, and several manufacturers make keyless guitars.
So now we're talking about a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.
Are you referring to [i]all/i] steel guitars in this thread regarding keyless, or just non-pedal?
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Mark |
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Raymond Jones
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 20 May 2011 4:24 pm Tuning is easier than I could have thought---
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Keyless is a great space saver for lap or console. I have a scale length of 241/2" with the guitar only 261/4" overall. With ten strings the head would be "very" long. The key I use has the rounded tip for ease of use and quickness.
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Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Posted 20 May 2011 6:53 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
Steve, chances are there's others out there in the world, but the only non-pedal or lap steel I can even think of that is keyless is the Harmos.
With pedal steels it's a different story as to the advantages, and several manufacturers make keyless guitars.
So now we're talking about a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.
Are you referring to [i]all/i] steel guitars in this thread regarding keyless, or just non-pedal? |
Mark,
I saw the Harmos and a Custom made non-pedal in the forum's "For Sale" section today. I also stumbled across THIS MAGNATONE on eBay.
Until now, I'd only seen keyless guitars very rarely -- then today I see THREE of them.
I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about PEDAL steel guitars (& am just learning non-pedal), so I guess I'm only referring to non-pedal steels in this thread.
_________________
Some songs I've written |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 20 May 2011 9:28 pm
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A lot of people would'nt have anything else .I never thought about getting one for just ONE reason,I always thought they were ugly as hell,looks like something is missing,Just MY opinion,no hate mail please.   YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 20 May 2011 11:00 pm
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There are some topics here that usually end up as religious debates. This is one of them.
PS I don`t mean you, Charlie
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 21 May 2011 4:40 am
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Here are some keyless I've built
I was honored that the late Rick Alexander bought the red one for his collection |
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Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 7:45 am
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Sonny,
Those are some beautiful guitars!! I especially like the third pic (birdseye maple?).
My main question is:
How do you get enough tension on the string to bring it up to pitch?
I know with a standard gear, you may have to twist the key a dozen or more times when putting on a new string to raise it to the proper pitch.
I looked at the first pic Raymond posted (close up), but can't tell exactly how they work.
_________________
Some songs I've written |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 May 2011 8:20 am
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I'm inclined to keep the classic tuners, with no extra tools to fool with, but those guitars do look really nice.
It might be a factor on the airlines too, with a shorter case to fit in the overhead carry-on space, and maybe even in a suitcase. |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 21 May 2011 8:57 am
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In practice, it actually great idea for tuning stability, weight, size, etc. It works for "non-steel" guitars too!!
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 May 2011 9:11 am
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| How do you get enough tension on the string to bring it up to pitch? |
Adjust the tuner so it is closest to the nut.
Install a new string, pulling it "hand tight", lock it down.
Tighten it to pitch using the tuner knob.
This is actually faster than a keyed tuner, once you get used to it. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 9:29 am
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On a keyless steel guitar, you don't have that short length of string vibrating in the keyhead. You lose the overtones, good or bad, created by that vibration.
I damp the strings in the keyhead of my D-8 Stringmaster with rubber grommets. Without the grommets, I hear a subtle out-of-tune overtone on certain notes. A keyless guitar never has this problem.
I think that a keyed guitar usually sounds richer, but at the price of an occasional bad harmonic on certain notes. A keyless guitar sounds more even and balanced from one string to the next.
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 12:03 pm
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| Geoff Cline wrote: |
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Geoff, is that one of those Lazer guitars, as played years back by Johnny Winter ...only prettier?
Interesting comments, bOb, I always wondered about that end of it.
But I've loved Sonny's work since he first posted that little red one. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 21 May 2011 2:09 pm
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Steve,,,as Joey said,,if I start from flush with the nut,,,pull the string hand tight,,,tighten down on the set screw,,,wiggle the string back and forth a few times to break it,,,then on the string I have to pull the most to pitch,,,it is less than 3/8 of an inch.
I make my own "fingers" (in fact I make everything on the guitar except the pick up, pots, jack and strings), the same design as my Kline guitar, straight pull from a pivoting axle, simple no frills.
I've owned 3 Klines over the past 10 or so years and I've never broken a string on one.
Keyless Forever!!!!! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 6:13 am
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I tried a keyless tuner on a Sho~Bud some years back.
The first thing I noticed was the shorter stroke required of the pedals and levers. You don't have that extra length of string beyond the nut to fool with. Especially on the 5th and 6th strings. |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 22 May 2011 6:40 am
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| Geoff Cline wrote: |
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Geoff, is that one of those Lazer guitars, as played years back by Johnny Winter ...only prettier?
Interesting comments, bOb, I always wondered about that end of it.
But I've loved Sonny's work since he first posted that little red one. |
Ron:
This guitar is a one-off by the late, great John Zeidler. John named it "The Ax" (its inlaid in the body, with his "Z" logo), built in the mid-80's and inspired by the Steinberger headless guitars. Rather than being composite, my guitar is maple body and neck, with ebony finger board and 8 ply binding (!) (details and incredible craftsmanship were two of John's "trademarks") and John fabricated the metal work as well (except for the Kahler tremolo bridge). I replaced the original EMG pickups with custom "PAF" style, splitable humbuckers by Taku Sakashita.
It is a VERY special guitar and a joy to play. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 10:25 am
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| Thanx for the reply, Geoff, it's one of those guitars that screams "I'm special!". |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 23 May 2011 4:48 am
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| Hey Geoff,,,I'd love to see a pic of that tuning mechanism,,, ????? Does it tune from the "nut" end,,or the "bridge" end??? |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 23 May 2011 10:55 am
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Hi Sonny/All:
Here you go..
It tunes from the tail end, allen wrench to do basic tuning from the end and fine tuners (by fingers) to adjust as needed. At the "head" the strings go through holes in chromed brass head piece and are wrapped/locked in place by Allen screws (just like a Kline PSG...I miss mine) and then cut after installation. |
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